Dan wrote on Aug 25^th, 2010 at 4:52pm:



I am very happy with my relationship with Christ and God. But having waded into debates such as these more times then I can remember I find nothing good comes from them. I will boldly declare my testimony that Christ is the Son of God and has helped me in my life more times then I can remember, but I don't believe trying to prove the Bible or God through science is necessarily the best way to go about it, although perhaps God is working through you in ways I cannot see. Do what you feel you should and God bless.

one of my favourite debate topics! this may get long, we will see.

SCIENCE
science is why we have computers today, and all our technology. it proven to work and give results. i question how science got this far, but im sitting here using one of the productsof it. i know it works, i see that it works, and its an incredible force for good. (anti biotics, medicine, medivacs) ... and of course evil according to the user.

why would people make up evolution? to me it makes sense. random chances over billions of years. i can roll with that. slow changes occur. time is the key factor. if the earth were less than 10k years, then evolution could not have occured.

i dont know bout the accuracy of carbon dating, or any other of those methods, but i highly doubt the scientists are idiots, you know? college tends to educate people. and whats the benefit, as i said, of making up evolution?

RELIGION
a friend and i debated religion and sciene all through art class, and i think i have a basic enough understanding of christianity (not other religions). now if im correct, the only way i can escape hell is if i accept jesus as my savior. the only way. nothign else.
i will never, ever, ever, worship a god who will, if i do not choose savior from jesus, will send me to hell. i wont.
if i live a good life, dedicate it to helping the world, or anyone i can, why should i go to hell?

there are so many religions, which one is true? why are there so many, if there is only one true religion?

native americans. they didnt know about christianity until the whites came along and brought it to them. does that mean they all went to hell because of something they didnt even know about? where is the logic in that.

creation- in the begening there was god and he created everything.
who created god? if the earth needs a creator, why doesnt god? why was he just "there" always? makes no sense.

war. do i even need to mention it? why are all these damn religions getting so many people killed? COEXIST ALREADY!

the only proof i hear from christians it the bible. that is the only book i hear of where the get all their proof. is it even logical to obtain all information from one source? i think not. even if it is the said work of god, written over thousands of years.

a brief quotes
Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.               i like this one. wheres evil? i see plenty, why cant
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.                                             god stop it? and im pretty sure theres an answer, so
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?                                      can someone tell me please? gracias
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?

also, why are there so many different people interpreting gods will in a different way? shouldnt they all be the same, if its the same god? (im refering to the numerous christian stuff, like catholics, protestants, etc)

CONCLUSION-
who cares? ok, were on earth. ok, some peopel believe some dont. dont shove your beliefes down throats, or say "god told me to"
lets just concentrate on making the world a better place. enough with the killing, rape, slaves, etc.

ps, prayer, i think, is hogwash. its luck. if you want something done, less praying more working yourself.

Dan wrote on Aug 25^th, 2010 at 4:52pm:

First, I feel for Dan who is attempting to hold up his side of the discussion on his own.  I've seen a lot of religious discussions on many forums, and I've never seen one that didn't erupt into a war if insults.  Why should Dan become upset if Bikewer is an atheist?  Why should Rat Man become angry if Morhpy can't see the logic of evolution?  To the best of my knowledge all of us live in countries that allow religious freedom, yet in forums such as this it's rarely practiced.  In that for the most part we've behaved in a civil manner here while discussing a very emotionally charged topic, I'd just like to say that you've all made me proud to be a part of slinging.org.

Rat Man wrote on Aug 26^th, 2010 at 10:21am:




Just to be clear, before I was not a firm evolutionist I was an evolutionist... So yea it's not hard to see both sides on this matter...
These arguments are pointless. I've seen good points brought up by both sides throughout my many debates on it and invariably both sides use whatever means necessary to try and dismiss the other.

I have no desire to get into the topic anymore as it is sort of an all or nothing type thing that leads to nothing anyways. Having seen both sides of this argument post pages upon pages of evidence showing where problems lie in the theory or where said problems are mitigated by this or that particular piece of evidence and no matter how much one debates this, eventually nothing at all EVER comes of it.

If I ever feel the need to have a pointless argument, I have a wife and I have in-laws so I am covered as far as that goes...

Rat Man wrote on Aug 26^th, 2010 at 4:46pm:



Fair enough...it's not pointless, I am just tired at the moment and it shows in my writing I guess.

Rat Man wrote on Aug 26^th, 2010 at 5:20pm:


Thank you sir... I think I need my tonsils out of something because whatever it is, is hiding in my lymph nodes or tonsils or something and keeps coming back. Anywho... that's life. 

tim,
if i understand evolution corerctly, the whole point is that there has been a ton of time for all the changes to occur. the harmful mutations die out, the one that are helpful live on. so, 3.5 billion years is enough time for changes to occur and the process to work.

i think the reason we dont see knew species is because of how slowly the changes occur. creature- change- creature- change- creature-change, and so on, untill there is a new monster. in that case, its hard to see the creaters and what the became.
also, apes and humans? we came from them, so would theres two different species, if those are different enough to count.
-and if im wrong, some one correct me please.

Dan wrote on Aug 24^th, 2010 at 1:24pm:



I absolutely do not believe any of the above.  That's "my view."
I cannot even really fathom the thinking that arrives at those beliefs.

Quote:


This does an outstanding job of summing up my feelings (although I was never a "devout" Roman Catholic).
Howevever, it's not really "envy" that I feel for the devoutly faithful, since in my core I believe that they are believing in myth -- so that would be like wishing I were able to delude myself.

I intend the above to be a frank statement of my feelings and beliefs, not an attack or slight or denigration of the beliefs of others.  Just so ya know, ok?