Slinging.org Forum - fireless fire hardenning

xxkid123 Past Moderator Offline Hallo, ich heiße kartoffel Posts: 4807 new to california Gender:	fireless fire hardenning Jul 20^th, 2009 at 7:41pm how do you harden wood without fire? i wanted to make a javelin in my other topic, but i didn't want it to break... any help (i'm counting on Aztec, paleoarts, or David morningstar for this one, but anyone is welcome)
Back to top	There's no break, there's no end, just a-living on;&&Wide awake, with a smile, going on and on. IP Logged

slingbadger Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Don't Badger a Badger Posts: 3247 Akron NY Gender:	Re: fireless fire hardenning Reply #1 - Jul 20^th, 2009 at 8:08pm You could do it over, say the burner of an electric stove. At least it would be a consistent temperature, rather than the relative randomness that flame produces. I would be sure to disconnect all of the fire alarms, though.
Back to top	The greatest of all the accomplishments of 20th cent. science has been the discovery of human ignorance The main difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits.-Einstein I'm getting psychic as I get older. Or is that psychotic? IP Logged

Rockman Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 1267 Lima, Peru Gender:	Re: fireless fire hardenning Reply #2 - Jul 20^th, 2009 at 9:14pm I'd suggest a bag of charcoal. Relly hot, but no flames for the most part.
Back to top	Preserving the sling, mankind´s original Magnum. Rookie slingers are modern superheroes: Never far away from trouble. Rockman sling tutorial: http://slinging.org/index.php?page=how-to-make-a-rockman-sling---bruno-tosso IP Logged

aztec Funditor Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 858 Gender:	Re: fireless fire hardenning Reply #3 - Jul 20^th, 2009 at 11:09pm im not sure how you could do that. i think a stove would work good. just dont burn the house down and i have a high powered bench grinder and when you use wood on it ,it burns as it sharpens.
Back to top	i slung a rock into the air! &&where it lands i know not - ow IP Logged

Paleoarts

Interfector Viris Spurii

Offline

it don't mean a thing
if you aint got that
sling!

Posts: 1993
oceanside, CA
Gender: male

Re: fireless fire hardenning
Reply #4 - Jul 21^st, 2009 at 12:38am

i have a heat gun (think of a hair dryer on steroids!) that i use. i bought it at 'harbor frieght' tools. i don't know if you have those, but they are a great place for dirt cheap tools. the heat gun was like $8. other than that, i don't know ...gas grill? really, really, REALLY big magnifying glass Grin

oooh! how about car exhaust? nah, too dangerous and probably not hot enough.

Back to top

visit me at www.paleoarts.net and my new gallery at www.flintknappers.com

IP Logged

David Morningstar

Slinging.org Moderator

Offline

Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 3520
UK

Re: fireless fire hardenning
Reply #5 - Jul 21^st, 2009 at 6:17am

I'd go with sticking it in the coals of a barbeque. You can use this for helping to shape the point too, just burn away the end and it will naturally come out pointed and hardened when you scrape away the charcoal.

If you cant do that, then grinding is reckoned to make a tougher point that carving, but I dont know why. I would carve or rasp down to a rough shape and grind to finish, and then soak the tip in white PVA wood glue (Elmers glue?)

Back to top

IP Logged

xxkid123

Past Moderator

Offline

Hallo, ich heiße kartoffel

Posts: 4807
new to california
Gender: male

Re: fireless fire hardenning
Reply #6 - Jul 21^st, 2009 at 12:24pm

David Morningstar wrote on Jul 21^st, 2009 at 6:17am:

I'd go with sticking it in the coals of a barbeque. You can use this for helping to shape the point too, just burn away the end and it will naturally come out pointed and hardened when you scrape away the charcoal.

If you cant do that, then grinding is reckoned to make a tougher point that carving, but I dont know why. I would carve or rasp down to a rough shape and grind to finish, and then soak the tip in white PVA wood glue (Elmers glue?)

does that make it harder, or more durable? and if i used my gas stove, just stuck the wood on top of the flames, wood it slightly char enough for me to do a small amount or rubbing? it would be slow, but i would have a more controlled point

Back to top

There's no break, there's no end, just a-living on;&&Wide awake, with a smile, going on and on.

IP Logged

Paleoarts

Interfector Viris Spurii

Offline

it don't mean a thing
if you aint got that
sling!

Posts: 1993
oceanside, CA
Gender: male

Re: fireless fire hardenning
Reply #7 - Jul 21^st, 2009 at 2:07pm

there is some debate as to 'fire hardening'. some woods do get harder when heated but not all (pine, cedar, douglas fir and other soft woods just seem to char). i personally think that ancient people used fire as a reduction method more than a hardening agent. what it is good for, besides reduction, is quick drying of green wood and straightening. you can reduce your closet rod over a stove but it's gonna be smelly and take you forever. scrape your point with a knife and then do some burnishing. that's where you take a heavy glass bottle or an extremely smooth rock and vigorously rub it on the peice going with the grain. this compacts the wood fibers and makes a protective outer surface. as well as giving it nice shine! to make it even stronger and shinier, rub the entire thing with vegetable oil before you burnish it.

(okay, i know there at least 4 or 5 dirty jokes hidden in that last paragraph!)

Back to top

visit me at www.paleoarts.net and my new gallery at www.flintknappers.com

IP Logged

Curious Aardvark Forum Moderation Offline Taller than the average Dwarf Posts: 13965 Midlands England Gender:	Re: fireless fire hardenning Reply #8 - Jul 23^rd, 2009 at 11:23am sharpen the tip and soak it in superglue. makes it very tough
Back to top	Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One - works for me IP Logged

xxkid123 Past Moderator Offline Hallo, ich heiße kartoffel Posts: 4807 new to california Gender:	Re: fireless fire hardenning Reply #9 - Jul 24^th, 2009 at 12:06pm Curious Aardvark wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2009 at 11:23am: sharpen the tip and soak it in superglue. makes it very tough hey good idea (i can go to the dollar store and get large amounts of superglue)
Back to top	There's no break, there's no end, just a-living on;&&Wide awake, with a smile, going on and on. IP Logged

Kjev Senior Member Offline Limits exist only in your mind Posts: 299	Re: fireless fire hardenning Reply #10 - Jul 25^th, 2009 at 10:54pm I soak my atlatl hooks in superglue. They never seem to wear out that way. K'Jev
Back to top	K'Jev "Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter"--Yoda https://www.facebook.com/StormsForge IP Logged

aztec Funditor Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 858 Gender:	Re: fireless fire hardenning Reply #11 - Jul 25^th, 2009 at 10:58pm it doesnt dry in a big chunk around the hooks? and then what do you do, like grind away the excess?. i might try that
Back to top	i slung a rock into the air! &&where it lands i know not - ow IP Logged

Kjev

Senior Member

Offline

Limits exist only in your
mind

Posts: 299

Re: fireless fire hardenning
Reply #12 - Jul 26^th, 2009 at 9:01am

Actually, super glue soaks in really fast, and dries almost instantly. So fast, it's difficult to glue two pieces together with it. It just soaks into the pores of the wood, apparently. It dries really fast on paper too.

If you need to fill a gap in something, you might want to try this:

Fill the gap with baking soda (any brand will do)
Clean up the area around the gap (any granules of baking soda left will be REALLY hard to get rid of later.
Drop super glue on the gap, drop by drop. Let each drop soak in before adding another. Capillary action will pull the glue into even the smallest spaces.
Sit back and wait for it to dry (it doesn't take long--less than a minute usually.

Once it's dry, it can be sanded, filed, drilled, and is incredibly strong. What happens is this:

Superglue reacts chemically with baking soda for some reason, creating heat, and dries super-fast. The result is rock hard (which is why you want the area around the gap clean of excess baking soda). You can actually feel the heat coming off of it. I found this trick in an old model railroading book, and have used it for years on a wide range of projects.

Professor K'Jev
Cool

Back to top

K'Jev

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter"--Yoda

https://www.facebook.com/StormsForge

IP Logged

xxkid123

Past Moderator

Offline

Hallo, ich heiße kartoffel

Posts: 4807
new to california
Gender: male

Re: fireless fire hardenning
Reply #13 - Jul 26^th, 2009 at 10:41am

Kjev wrote on Jul 26^th, 2009 at 9:01am:

Actually, super glue soaks in really fast, and dries almost instantly. So fast, it's difficult to glue two pieces together with it. It just soaks into the pores of the wood, apparently. It dries really fast on paper too.

If you need to fill a gap in something, you might want to try this:

Fill the gap with baking soda (any brand will do)
Clean up the area around the gap (any granules of baking soda left will be REALLY hard to get rid of later.
Drop super glue on the gap, drop by drop. Let each drop soak in before adding another. Capillary action will pull the glue into even the smallest spaces.
Sit back and wait for it to dry (it doesn't take long--less than a minute usually.

Once it's dry, it can be sanded, filed, drilled, and is incredibly strong. What happens is this:

Superglue reacts chemically with baking soda for some reason, creating heat, and dries super-fast. The result is rock hard (which is why you want the area around the gap clean of excess baking soda). You can actually feel the heat coming off of it. I found this trick in an old model railroading book, and have used it for years on a wide range of projects.

Professor K'Jev
Cool

ha, a baking soda and super glue fueled fire place Grin

Back to top

There's no break, there's no end, just a-living on;&&Wide awake, with a smile, going on and on.

IP Logged

Paleoarts Interfector Viris Spurii Offline it don't mean a thing if you aint got that sling! Posts: 1993 oceanside, CA Gender:	Re: fireless fire hardenning Reply #14 - Jul 26^th, 2009 at 11:32am kjev, great tip! that one is gonna come in handy.
Back to top	visit me at www.paleoarts.net and my new gallery at www.flintknappers.com IP Logged