Welcome, Guest. Please Login
SLINGING.ORG
 
Home Help Search Login


Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Ancient jewish sling (Read 649 times)
jeffbonds
Descens
***
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 188
Alabama
Gender: male
Ancient jewish sling
Aug 24th, 2024 at 5:35am
 
Does anyone know what an ancient jewish sling would have looked like? If we could go back and see David with his sling what would that sling have actually looked like would it have been a woven basket pouch or a split pouch?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
TheTomato
Novicius
*
Offline


Rolling an athletics check

Posts: 5
Isreal
Gender: male
Re: Ancient jewish sling
Reply #1 - Aug 25th, 2024 at 5:51pm
 
From looking at archeological data by the Israel Antiquities Authority and spending a couple of days looking for Historical papers on the subject, it seems there is no answer as to the specific make of the slings.
There is a lot of archeological evidence of sling-stones, yet the slings themselves did not seem to survive.

Because there is no surviving archeological or historical record, it is possible to speculate based on a couple things:

1. Slings found in Tutankhamun's grave have a woven pouch, so the woven pouch might have been more common locally. Since the levant was very influenced by Egyptian culture, the design of the sling may have been influenced as well.

2. In the same vain, Greek and Akkadian culture were also highly influential , so it may be worth seeing if there is any literature on that topic.

3. (this is the most far-fetched one) Most modern day slings in the region have a closed pouch (either woven or a piece of leather/fabric) and not a split one, so that may indicate that ancient slings had one as well.

TL;DR No one knows, but I think a leather/woven pouch is the most probable guess. as to the rest of the sling construction we have even less of a clue.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Ahnkochee
Tiro
**
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 26
Ko`olaupoko, Hawai`i
Gender: male
Re: Ancient jewish sling
Reply #2 - Aug 28th, 2024 at 4:58pm
 
I agree, that it would be very similar in style to those used by the ancient Egyptians. 
Back to top
 

Sling_Egyptian.jpg (58 KB | 21 )
Sling_Egyptian.jpg

He then took his staff in his hand and chose five smooth stones from the streambed and placed them in the pouch of his shepherd’s bag, and his sling was in his hand. And he began approaching the Philistine.  David ran quickly toward the battle line to meet the Philistine.  David thrust his hand into his bag and took a stone from there and slung it. He struck the Philistine in the forehead...
 
IP Logged
 
TOMBELAINE
Funditor
****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 815
france
Gender: male
Re: Ancient jewish sling
Reply #3 - Aug 29th, 2024 at 6:17am
 
The reasonning is far too fragile. I think we don't know.

jeffbonds wrote on Aug 24th, 2024 at 5:35am:
a woven basket pouch or a split pouch?


And why not this one ? Only leather. 0 archeological sling in Israel, so any sling is possible.


Back to top
« Last Edit: Aug 29th, 2024 at 9:56am by TOMBELAINE »  
 
IP Logged
 
TOMBELAINE
Funditor
****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 815
france
Gender: male
Re: Ancient jewish sling
Reply #4 - Aug 31st, 2024 at 4:39am
 
Jeffbonds, your question is interesting but has no answer so far.

TheTomato wrote on Aug 25th, 2024 at 5:51pm:
it seems there is no answer as to the specific make of the slings.

TheTomato is right.

What basis can be used to think about this question ?
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
TOMBELAINE
Funditor
****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 815
france
Gender: male
Re: Ancient jewish sling
Reply #5 - Sep 2nd, 2024 at 11:49am
 
What the Bible says ?
David is still a child and he keeps the sheep.
But I have a question. Why my bible (in French) talks about flat stones, while a bible (in English) speaks of round stones ? Is there a translation error or does the word aramaic have a vague meaning ?
I don't know.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
xud9a - call me zud 👍
Funditor
****
Offline


Ringing Slocks !

Posts: 717
Nottinghamshire, England
Gender: male
Re: Ancient jewish sling
Reply #6 - Sep 2nd, 2024 at 2:31pm
 
Hey Tombelaine,
That is a can of worms best not opened.
The bible has been re translated so many times as to render the bulk of it ..... meaningless.
The english King James bible was absolutely written to the current standards (then) of spoken english.
The latest working is that Mary was a 'healthy' birth .....quite a difference from 'virgin' !
If they get something as vital to the christian faith as that wrong there isn't much hope on wether stones are flat or round !!
Either way its a faith narrative, not a factual one and therefore open to interpretation by theologians.
Leave them to it, I say.
Be happy.
Huh Smiley
Back to top
 

My outlook on life is Aristotalean; on seeing an Acorn I see a potential oak tree rather than Plato's view that it is a failed copy.
BE SAFE,    BE SMILEY,   BE STRANGE
 
IP Logged
 
TOMBELAINE
Funditor
****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 815
france
Gender: male
Re: Ancient jewish sling
Reply #7 - Sep 4th, 2024 at 4:36am
 
xud9a - call me zud 👍 wrote on Sep 2nd, 2024 at 2:31pm:
Quoi qu'il en soit, c'est un récit de foi, pas un récit factuel et donc ouvert à l'interprétation des théologiens.
Laissez-les faire, dis-je.

Half agree with you.  Undecided

The question isn't fundamental but do we know the words for sling and slingstone in Aramaic ?
Does anyone know the oldest version of the text ? To have a more scientific translation.

Anyway, we have others ways of approaching the issue to answer for Jeff Bond's question.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
TheTomato
Novicius
*
Offline


Rolling an athletics check

Posts: 5
Isreal
Gender: male
Re: Ancient jewish sling
Reply #8 - Sep 5th, 2024 at 5:10am
 
TOMBELAINE wrote on Sep 4th, 2024 at 4:36am:
Does anyone know the oldest version of the text ? To have a more scientific translation.


I may be able to get some sources on the specific wording in older texts, but it'll take me a couple weeks probably. I'll post here when I get leads!

Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
David Morningstar
Slinging.org Moderator
*****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 3433
UK
Re: Ancient jewish sling
Reply #9 - Sep 5th, 2024 at 7:41am
 
There is a strong correlation today across the world between shepherds and wool slings. It is not 100% , the best known exception being the Spanish shepherds who use plant fibres.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
joe_meadmaker
Slinging.org Administrator
*****
Offline


Slinging Ice is Cool!

Posts: 3215
PA, USA
Re: Ancient jewish sling
Reply #10 - Sep 5th, 2024 at 11:42pm
 
David Morningstar wrote on Sep 5th, 2024 at 7:41am:
strong correlation today across the world between shepherds and wool slings

This makes sense to me.  Certainly not a guarantee that's what was used.  But people will generally make use of what they have readily available.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Caspian
Tiro
**
Online


vinegar drinker

Posts: 34
Squaw Valley, California
Gender: male
Re: Ancient jewish sling
Reply #11 - Sep 6th, 2024 at 12:15am
 
Yeah, this isn't scientific per-se, but the hot climate combined with woolly sheep that need to be sheared for their sakes would lead to an excess of wool to be used in blankets, clothing, headwear, and slings. At least that is the case for shepherds. City folk back then who couldn't raise many sheep, if any, would likely have linen at their disposal - slings being one such disposal. Easier to process flax in a city than to keep a sheep, and easier to maintain, too  Grin

As for pouch, whether split or woven: who knows? I sure don't. We can assume their slings were similar to Egyptian slings as stated above, but we can assume many things, and whether they're fact or fiction, none can say. One could guess, as per 1 Samuel 25:29 that the pouch of slings was as the palm of one's hand - the Hebrew word translated as "hollow" or "pocket", "כַּף", means flat and hollowed, usually used to say "hand" in the sense of the hand being open and flat, ready to give or take. So, one could guess that perhaps the typical sling of that era was enclosed, either via weaving or by leather.

Regardless, it's not hard to imagine that slingers throughout time can personalize their slings, so maybe while Abigail is used to closed pouch slings from Nabal's shepherds or whomever else, it might not have been the typical. Just some speculation  Wink
Back to top
 

For thus says the LORD: “Behold, I am slinging out the inhabitants of the land at this time, and I will bring distress on them, that they may feel it.”
 
IP Logged
 
TOMBELAINE
Funditor
****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 815
france
Gender: male
Re: Ancient jewish sling
Reply #12 - Sep 6th, 2024 at 5:33am
 
TheTomato wrote on Sep 5th, 2024 at 5:10am:
I may be able to get some sources on the specific wording in older texts, but it'll take me a couple weeks probably. I'll post here when I get leads!

Thanks ! We are with you.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
TOMBELAINE
Funditor
****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 815
france
Gender: male
Re: Ancient jewish sling
Reply #13 - Sep 6th, 2024 at 5:57am
 
https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1407576041
We had a long discussion about the slings quoted by Homer. For linguistic reasons, it is possible that they were made of goat hair.
During archeological excavations in "the mines of King Solomon", clothing of poor people made from goat wool was found.
David Morningstar wrote on Sep 5th, 2024 at 7:41am:
There is a strong correlation today across the world between shepherds and wool slings

For these three reasons, I would go for a sling entirely in goat hair.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
StaffSlinger
Senior Member
****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 476
Florida
Re: Ancient jewish sling
Reply #14 - Nov 4th, 2024 at 7:07pm
 
My S.W.A.G. (Scientific Wild Ass Guess) is that those early shepherd slings were shepherd's sash belts doing double duty.

That is to say,  a simple strip of woven (or possibly even felted) cloth 2"-3" wide and long enough to go around the shepherd's waist with some inches of excess strip hanging below the knotted closure. 


Back to top
 

CUM FUNDA PROSCRIPTAE ERUNT TUM SOLI PROSCRIPTI FUNDA HABEBUNT &&
StaffSlinger  
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
(Moderators: David Morningstar, Rat Man, Bill Skinner, Curious Aardvark, Chris, Mauro Fiorentini, Masiakasaurus)