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Roman-era battle in SE Switzerland (Read 1482 times)
Archaic Arms
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Re: Roman-era battle in SE Switzerland
Reply #15 - Jan 2nd, 2024 at 5:17pm
 
TOMBELAINE wrote on Dec 20th, 2023 at 5:19am:
In excavations, archeologists sometimes find such grooves in lead slingstones. They have no explanation.

Perhaps the groove was struck into them before use, so that they make sound in flight? It's much quicker and easier than drilling a hole.
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Re: Roman-era battle in SE Switzerland
Reply #16 - Jan 3rd, 2024 at 4:25pm
 
A hole is not a groove. During production you could cast a groove straight away. And why are they so rare? It can also be injuries caused by field work. But it is very probably that they are posted somewhere. A blade. On the sign.
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Re: Roman-era battle in SE Switzerland
Reply #17 - Jan 4th, 2024 at 6:57am
 
Jaegoor wrote on Dec 20th, 2023 at 6:01am:
https://youtu.be/JjjItoZsggM?si=EF8J8-FeTq_tycGu

In a battle, fighters stand close to you. It is possible for a projectile to hit a blade. Or on the edge of a sign. I think an ax hit is likely. If the fighters stand in the shield wall, they have their axes raised.


I think ur spot on with that theory, it makes the most sense to find a few sharply damaged bullets on a battlefield filled with blades. Very cool find that one.
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Re: Roman-era battle in SE Switzerland
Reply #18 - Jan 4th, 2024 at 10:45am
 
It would be worth a study
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Re: Roman-era battle in SE Switzerland
Reply #19 - Jan 4th, 2024 at 3:31pm
 
Jaegoor wrote on Jan 3rd, 2024 at 4:25pm:
A hole is not a groove. During production you could cast a groove straight away. And why are they so rare? It can also be injuries caused by field work. But it is very probably that they are posted somewhere. A blade. On the sign.

It wouldn't whistle like a hole, but it would hum no doubt. It's not practical to try and cast it with a groove, for the same reason they didn't cast biconical bullets with holes, and instead drilled them after. First there are more complications in casting, and secondly, the edges need to be sharp to produce a good sound.
Any slinger could have made the gash with a knife/axe and a mallet when bored.

The main problem with your theory is that it appears the bullet was struck at least twice by an edge, not once.
What I see is that first strike was shallow and along the full length of the bullet, and the second bit off line as well as deeper.
I may be wrong, but that's how it appears to me. 
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« Last Edit: Jan 4th, 2024 at 5:53pm by Archaic Arms »  

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Re: Roman-era battle in SE Switzerland
Reply #20 - Jan 4th, 2024 at 9:54pm
 
Yes, they are wrong. Several times. Please show me a lead that has been drilled. Although there are some leads with holes, there is no scientific evidence that these holes exist were drilled. Holes are often caused by temperature errors during casting. If the mold is too cold, the lead will cool down too quickly. Holes appear. I cast thousands of leads. And I can consciously bring this about. The lead in the picture is most likely struck with the lower tip and rolled off the blade. This also happened in my test. It depends on how you use the bullet have spun. It will unroll exactly like in the picture. Or across. A slight diagonal is also possible. I have now scored various blade hits.You too? Casting such a groove is easy. Even with a sharp edge. By the way, where is the sharp edge in the picture? By the way, refinishing lead is a very ugly task. I did it. Acorns with a hole are known from England. I've done experiments with it. You don't have to water or drill them. In Switzerland, too, bullet holes were found in some of them. I recreated it. I drilled holes or created them through casting errors. In both cases the diameter was too small to produce a whistling sound. Well so what.  Tongue
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Re: Roman-era battle in SE Switzerland
Reply #21 - Jan 4th, 2024 at 10:04pm
 
Here is an original. Exactly how the hole came about is not yet clear. Such holes are caused by casting defects. But they whistle not. I tried it several times
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Re: Roman-era battle in SE Switzerland
Reply #22 - Jan 4th, 2024 at 10:09pm
 
Here is a replica. The hole was drilled with the same diameter as the original. But since it didn't want to whistle, I narrowed the outside diameter a little. In this case the diameter was but already too small beforehand. It doesn't whistle.
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Re: Roman-era battle in SE Switzerland
Reply #23 - Jan 4th, 2024 at 10:16pm
 
Look closely. You will find a lead with an angled serve. 😁
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Re: Roman-era battle in SE Switzerland
Reply #24 - Jan 4th, 2024 at 10:22pm
 
A nice hit. The projectile flew forward sharply. Hit a little below the tip and rolled off. The ax was not sharpened. A rough axe.
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Re: Roman-era battle in SE Switzerland
Reply #25 - Jan 5th, 2024 at 4:57pm
 
Jaegoor wrote on Jan 4th, 2024 at 9:54pm:
Yes, they are wrong. Several times. Please show me a lead that has been drilled. Although there are some leads with holes, there is no scientific evidence that these holes exist were drilled. Holes are often caused by temperature errors during casting. If the mold is too cold, the lead will cool down too quickly. Holes appear. I cast thousands of leads. And I can consciously bring this about. The lead in the picture is most likely struck with the lower tip and rolled off the blade. This also happened in my test. It depends on how you use the bullet have spun. It will unroll exactly like in the picture. Or across. A slight diagonal is also possible. I have now scored various blade hits.You too? Casting such a groove is easy. Even with a sharp edge. By the way, where is the sharp edge in the picture? By the way, refinishing lead is a very ugly task. I did it. Acorns with a hole are known from England. I've done experiments with it. You don't have to water or drill them. In Switzerland, too, bullet holes were found in some of them. I recreated it. I drilled holes or created them through casting errors. In both cases the diameter was too small to produce a whistling sound. Well so what.  Tongue

It seems quite a bold claim to suggest that no bullets had drilled holes. Famously, the Burnswark bullets come to mind. The researchers claim they are drilled holes. Some of the bullets do indeed look like your replicas, but others are pill shaped with a hole in the side, not so easy with your dipping method. Have you replicated these too?
I'm also aware of defects, as I've also done lots of metal casting. It's not surprised the defects don't make sound, a parallel sided hole works best.

Your strike on the axe blade left a nice clean line, not at all like the artifact. If you can replicate a similar mark, then it will be conclusive.

How do you cast a bullet with a groove with a ceramic mould? To make a groove, every bullet cavity would have to have a very thin ridge, I see many potential problems with that. In this period the Romans were casting a "tree" of connected bullets, with ceramic moulds. Often each half is misaligned, leading to odd shaped bullets. All of the bullets were trimmed and lead flashing hammered flush. So while it may be "ugly" job like you say, they still did it.
I've done experiments with drilled holes on metal bullets, and they whistle well. I've also done this with clay. The placement and size of hole has a big influence.

What do you think of this one, defect or drilled hole?
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Re: Roman-era battle in SE Switzerland
Reply #26 - Jan 5th, 2024 at 7:33pm
 
It's just as bold to say the holes were drilled. If you want certainty, you have to examine it carefully. And I'm not aware of any scientific research. But I know that one Switzerland is interested in examining it closely. And sorry to say, the diameters I know don't whistle. No matter whether drilled or a casting defect. Also their glay projectile with hole There was no real whistle to be heard. There is a wide range of quality. The Roman bullets were often very good. Many had a Legion stamp. I don't like any trees from Romans known. Casting a groove is not difficult. Put a piece of metal in the mold. They already have their groove. You can also pour holes this way. Why is my hit shaped like this? Because the The cutting edge of the ax is shaped differently. And then my bullets didn't lie in the ground for 2000 years.I only know the acorn from England from a few pictures. There are also strangely shaped ones. Also across. That's right. There are various explanations. You don't have to drill here either. To your picture. I can't see well. Is it an original? Where is it from? So I can't say exactly.Drilling is possible. But there are also other possible explanations
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Re: Roman-era battle in SE Switzerland
Reply #27 - Jan 10th, 2024 at 10:37pm
 
More surcharges
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« Last Edit: Jan 15th, 2024 at 9:54pm by joe_meadmaker »  


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Re: Roman-era battle in SE Switzerland
Reply #28 - Jan 10th, 2024 at 10:40pm
 
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Re: Roman-era battle in SE Switzerland
Reply #29 - Jan 15th, 2024 at 6:43pm
 
Hahaha
Is Crap-ses a Rumantsch expression ?
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