Slinging.org Forum - Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield

Thearos

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Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Oct 23^rd, 2023 at 7:51pm

Maybe an Amazon, maybe a Thracian. Slings big stone with medium sling, his body turned away from direction of shot to ensure maximum torque, and he has a shield held in one hand ! But I don't think he has a bag around his body.

Published by the https://www.carc.ox.ac.uk/XDB/ASP/recordDetailsLarge.asp?recordCount=8&id={7A12A... Beazley archive, Berlin ANTIKENSAMMLUNG, F2690, 425-375 BCE

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Slinger_with_pelte_copy.jpg (138 KB | 117 )

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TOMBELAINE Funditor Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 817 france Gender:	Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield Reply #1 - Oct 24^th, 2023 at 9:31am The slinger just dropped the pouch. Thanks for sharing. It looks like the other recently studied image, except for holding the pouch. Good question, Thearos.
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thabaill Descens Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 165	Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield Reply #2 - Apr 11^th, 2024 at 5:15pm Hi. It's me or is the pouch made of three straps?
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joe_meadmaker

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Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Reply #3 - Apr 11^th, 2024 at 10:59pm

Thearos wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2023 at 7:51pm:

maybe a Thracian

I could go with that. Shields with a cutout like that often seem to be from Greece (area). Other areas could certainly be possible, but offhand I don't recall seeing any.

thabaill wrote on Apr 11^th, 2024 at 5:15pm:

Hi. It's me or is the pouch made of three straps?

I don't see that myself. I zoomed in and it just looks like a representation of cords and possibly a pouch.

One of the things I like most about this depiction is the angle. Almost all images of slingers show them from the front. In this image we see the slinger from the back. It gives a different perspective which is pretty cool!

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thabaill

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Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Reply #4 - Apr 18^th, 2024 at 8:17am

joe_meadmaker wrote on Apr 11^th, 2024 at 10:59pm:

I don't see that myself. I zoomed in and it just looks like a representation of cords and possibly a pouch.

One of the things I like most about this depiction is the angle. Almost all images of slingers show them from the front. In this image we see the slinger from the back. It gives a different perspective which is pretty cool!

May be it's just me, but I think I can see very clearly the pouch is made of three straps. Like in this coin.

http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/pamphylia/aspendos/

Also I think I can see the slinger in the vase from the front, whirling the sling with the right hand and holding the shield with the left one Grin

Probably I am wrong but it is what I can see.

Greetings

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joe_meadmaker

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Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Reply #5 - Apr 18^th, 2024 at 10:53pm

You could be right. I definitely can't see anything in the pouch clearly enough to call it either way. In both images though it appears to be two cords coming up to the pouch. Then it turns into a mess. Grin

thabaill wrote on Apr 18^th, 2024 at 8:17am:

Also I think I can see the slinger in the vase from the front, whirling the sling with the right hand and holding the shield with the left one

You could be correct on this too. The reason I think we're seeing the slinger from the back is because of how the shield is held. It looks like the hand is over top of the shield grip, which would make it the right hand from our angle. If it was the left hand and the slinger was facing us, it should be underneath the grip of the shield. Another thing is the straps across the back (or maybe the front Wink

). I think these straps are holding a piece of armour or other protection on the front of the torso.
But they could also just be suspenders holding up his skirt. Grin

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thabaill

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Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Reply #6 - Apr 19^th, 2024 at 4:54am

I think the fighter is holding the shield this way

It is just the painting is a bit deteriorated or not so detailed to see the tips of the fingers or the nails. Also it seems that shield in the vase picture has only a handle and no arm strap.
Also the zone of sling pouch in the vase seems a bit chipped. But I think I see three straps. Just like in the coin where the sling pouch seems represented somewhat as a trident head. But it is actually a representation of the sling pouch folded because it is holding a stone or bullet. The hand holding the pouch seems a bit strange compared with the good representation of the figures in the coin.
I think the straps on the chest (or the back) are just suspenders Grin

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TOMBELAINE Funditor Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 817 france Gender:	Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield Reply #7 - Apr 19^th, 2024 at 5:39am On your link, there are three lines ; on mine, only two lines. So ...
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thabaill Descens Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 165	Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield Reply #8 - Apr 19^th, 2024 at 6:59am Actually it is pretty uncommon. The one I posted is the "SNG vA 4568 Aspendos, Pamphylia. c370-333 BC. AR Stater. Two wrestlers grappling; FN (retrograde) between, MENETYΣEΛYΦA (or variant) in exergue / EΣTFEΔIIYΣ, slinger to right; triskeles in field. SNGCop 228"
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joe_meadmaker

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Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Reply #9 - Apr 19^th, 2024 at 4:02pm

@thabaill - The other images have convinced me. I stand corrected. Thumbs Up

I think I'm seeing the image incorrectly.

As I look at the image, another thing that makes my brain think we're seeing the slinger from the back is because the cords of the sling appear to be behind the head. It just looks weird to me. That can certainly be attributed to the deterioration of the image (as you have mentioned), as well as the artist's interpretation of what a real slinger would have actually looked like.

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thabaill

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Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Reply #10 - Apr 20^th, 2024 at 6:37pm

joe_meadmaker wrote on Apr 19^th, 2024 at 4:02pm:

As I look at the image, another thing that makes my brain think we're seeing the slinger from the back is because the cords of the sling appear to be behind the head. It just looks weird to me. That can certainly be attributed to the deterioration of the image (as you have mentioned), as well as the artist's interpretation of what a real slinger would have actually looked like.

It happens the same in the coins. The sling appears behind the head too.

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joe_meadmaker Slinging.org Administrator Offline Slinging Ice is Cool! Posts: 3215 PA, USA	Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield Reply #11 - Apr 20^th, 2024 at 10:56pm thabaill wrote on Apr 20^th, 2024 at 6:37pm: It happens the same in the coins. The sling appears behind the head too. True. But in those images the pouch is being held. Not in a position that it would need to be in motion.
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thabaill Descens Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 165	Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield Reply #12 - Apr 21^st, 2024 at 4:08pm joe_meadmaker wrote on Apr 20^th, 2024 at 10:56pm: True. But in those images the pouch is being held. Not in a position that it would need to be in motion. You are right. That detail is a bit confusing.
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funditor

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Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield
Reply #13 - May 8^th, 2024 at 11:39am

As much as I really love to see a previously unknown image of a slinger, I am not convinced this is one. The pelte shield usually goes with a spear for light infantry, and this could well be one... if you extend the line behind the person towards the left, there seems to be a line as well, which would perfectly be an extension of the thought sling. The conservation status is not perfect. If anyone has additional information to counvince me, i would be happy to change my opinion.
We should be careful to interpret carefully, like on the situla of Welzelach, where the thrown object is probably a throwing stick for rabbit hunt.

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joe_meadmaker Slinging.org Administrator Offline Slinging Ice is Cool! Posts: 3215 PA, USA	Re: Another Greek vase showing a slinger with a shield Reply #14 - May 8^th, 2024 at 11:08pm I think you're correct. Sarosh also pointed it out in this topic where the same image came up: https://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1709755717. Sarosh's comment: the vase depicts a javelin with amentum
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