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Need help for different sizes. (Read 193 times)
TOMBELAINE
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Need help for different sizes.
Jan 10th, 2023 at 10:48am
 
Hello,
I need help for different sizes in a hand.
After discussions I had about chalk slingstones with archeologists, I think it's possible that the size of several slingstones are measured with the hands. This is the hypothesis I want to study.
So I need your help to establish "an average hand".
All responses are welcome and a big thank you to all.
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Teg
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Re: Need help for different sizes.
Reply #1 - Jan 10th, 2023 at 12:25pm
 
Most of the info you are looking for is likely already available online:

https://www.healthline.com/health/average-hand-size#hand-size-vs-height
(The primary sources are linked in the article)

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/288518032_Kids_and_gender_Differences_i...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5535485/

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2090536X16300697

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1258/rsmmsl.49.2.123



Note that people in ancient times might have been younger on average and also likely less obese than we are nowadays. That might affect the measurements somewhat.

How to look for more information:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
https://scholar.google.com

There are other platforms, but they are mostly locked behind paywalls. Your local university library may have access to a couple.
https://www.scopus.com
https://clarivate.com/webofsciencegroup/solutions/web-of-science/ (Web of Science)

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StaffSlinger
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Re: Need help for different sizes.
Reply #2 - Jan 10th, 2023 at 1:25pm
 
I agree with Teg -- modern people and their hands are much larger than than our predecessors.  You would do well to explore the studies of ancient humans -- Egyptians, Scythians, Greeks & Romans, Europeans etc.  Forensic anthropologists (or whatever they're called) will certainly have studied and recorded findings about body size, including hands.  A simple look at sword hilts from 1000 or more years ago tells you that hands were smaller 'back in the day'.
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CUM FUNDA PROSCRIPTAE ERUNT TUM SOLI PROSCRIPTI FUNDA HABEBUNT &&
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TOMBELAINE
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Re: Need help for different sizes.
Reply #3 - Jan 11th, 2023 at 2:45am
 
Yes, I agree with you.
But my height is 1 m 68. For me, the lenght D is 5,3 cm and E is 2,5 cm.
If my height is 1 m 60, D would be 5,0 cm and E would be 2.4 cm.
If my height is 1 m 50, D would be 4,7 cm and E would be 2,2 cm.
Yes, some differences exist.
But ...
For example, 15 Hawaian slingstones in museum of Quimper. This is the museum I want to visit. 7 have a width of 2,4 cm. My question is : is it a coincidence ?
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TOMBELAINE
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Re: Need help for different sizes.
Reply #4 - Jan 12th, 2023 at 3:00am
 
Always with my example, the median lenght is 5,4 cm. Second coincidence !
Yes, I'm not Hawaian and I didn't live in the XIXth century but I see two coherent coincidences.
My goal isn't to prove anything but to convince the archeologists that this hypothesis is interesting. Archeologists are scientist ; this is why an "average hand" is useful.
My idea may be stupid but if no one tries, we'll never know.
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Blindsquirrel
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Re: Need help for different sizes.
Reply #5 - Jan 12th, 2023 at 5:42am
 
Look into the prolate spheriod shape, all of the projectiles in the above picture seem to follow that rule: the width is half of the length. Here is a link to an archeological video on ďthe sling stone of Guam and the Mariana islandsĒ, I found this very interesting.
https://youtu.be/P-zg86E2V4w
I have my own opinions on the way these projectiles where made and why there were so many found in and around the waterway, but that is for  another day. There definitely seems to b a relationship between length and width of the projectile, which helps increases the projectiles flight stability. So far as to weight I think that was a personal preference or was based on the throwers strength? But what do I know?
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TOMBELAINE
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Re: Need help for different sizes.
Reply #6 - Jan 13th, 2023 at 2:49am
 
Hi, Blondsquirrel.
Thanks for the share. Useful and interesting.

In my photo, the 1st number is the lenght, the 2nd number is the width and the 3d number is the ratio width/lenght. The longer the lenght, the lower the ratio. It's normal because the width is almost fixed, about 2.4 cm.
My hypothesis :
1) Cut the diameter (1 phalanx on the index finger) in a pebble.
2) Cast off each end to obtain a projectile of about 3 fingers.
It's simple, fast and efficient to have identical slingstones. In addition, this method is easy to transmit to young slinger.
The photo attached to this post summarizes my idea.
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Blindsquirrel
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Re: Need help for different sizes.
Reply #7 - Jan 13th, 2023 at 7:18am
 
And the final test is to take what u made and toss it up and down into the air spinning it like it would in flight and c if it has a stable spin or wants to wobble. This is how I came up with the right length/width for a certain weigh projectile that I wanted. And so far for me projectiles that r between 50grams and 100grams seem to work the best. If heavier I notice it is harder to keep them on the target line and the same for lighter than 50. Based upon the sizes of glandes pictured up above where the weights of them somewhere around 75-85 grams?
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TOMBELAINE
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Re: Need help for different sizes.
Reply #8 - Jan 16th, 2023 at 11:38am
 
In 1888, Vigors remarked that the slingstones used in New Caledonia had a diameter of exactly 2,5 cm (Kubikova, 2015).
The length of the middle phalanx of my index finger is 2,5 cm.
I just contacted the museum and I hope the visit will be possible.
Allow me to insist but the length of the middle phalanx of the index finger of many of you would be of great statistical help.
Thanks to all.
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TOMBELAINE
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Re: Need help for different sizes.
Reply #9 - Jan 16th, 2023 at 11:43am
 
Blindsquirrel wrote on Jan 13th, 2023 at 7:18am:
Based upon the sizes of glandes pictured up above where the weights of them somewhere around 75-85 grams?


Between 40 and 50 grammes.
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Blindsquirrel
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Re: Need help for different sizes.
Reply #10 - Jan 16th, 2023 at 7:33pm
 
That is very interesting, that seem to line up with the weights Iím getting from dirt clay ammo Iím playing around with for similar shape and size.
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