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Shepherd challenge. (Read 1775 times)
Easybreeze
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Shepherd challenge.
Feb 22nd, 2022 at 11:00am
 
Thanks for the info everyone. All questions have been answered!
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« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2022 at 11:49am by Easybreeze »  
 
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IronGoober
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Re: Shepherd girl of Pella challenge. Expert opinions needed.
Reply #1 - Feb 22nd, 2022 at 12:05pm
 
I'm just going to throw 40 or 50 paces out there (~100 ft, 30m). The stories that we have had about "Grandfather" seem to make this possible about hitting a  target this size consistently. (The story says he was hitting a screw-mount cross-bar for climbing telephone poles from ~30 yards ~80% of the time if I recall correctly)

I think it would be an interesting twist to have the commander suggest that he toss the coin in the air, and if he catches it, he keeps all the money, but if she hits the coin before he can catch it, then she keeps it all.  Again, not outside the realm of possibility. Maybe also include some quick arguing on how high he has to toss the coin or something like that. But I like it how it is as well!!

Overall, I really like the setup of the story and the character from that short snippet.  Mythical-like accuracy/consistency with a sling is what a lot of us are chasing here, so it's great to have a story about it.
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Re: Shepherd girl of Pella challenge. Expert opinions needed.
Reply #2 - Feb 22nd, 2022 at 1:26pm
 
All questions have been answered. Thanks everyone!
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« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2022 at 11:47am by Easybreeze »  
 
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IronGoober
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Re: Shepherd girl of Pella challenge. Expert opinions needed.
Reply #3 - Feb 22nd, 2022 at 2:18pm
 
Another thing to remember in the context of setting up your story is that sling stones tend to be about the size of a chicken's egg, with a robin's egg size being about as small as one would tend to go, they just get too light to sling effectively any smaller than this.
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Re: Shepherd girl of Pella challenge. Expert opinions needed.
Reply #4 - Feb 22nd, 2022 at 2:22pm
 
well try not to reference modern items.
That stood out like a sore thumb.
ie: the size of a dime.
A man's thumb or finger nail, would be a better comparison.

15 paces would be reasonable, far enough to be difficult but near enough to be doable with a lot of practice. 


It depends on whether the girl is supposed to be preternaturally skilled, or just skilled.


If you're looking for just europaen myths and sling tales, then fine - but there is a rich vein of slinging stories and genuine historical sling usage in indian history and mythology.

The more I learn about it, the more I'm amazed of the overall ignorance of indian sling usage in the western world.

did the romans get as far as india ?
Probably.

Also it's far  more likely for the girl to be herding goats, rather than sheep.
Goats were by far the most commonly herded animal in the ancient world, and in fact are still the most commonly herded animal in the world today.

not sure how big a robins egg is, but for me 35-40mm is an ideal size for a clay ball.
weight is 50-65 gms. Also an ideal weight for me.

A lot of people like larger and heavier missiles, a lot depends on the sling design.

Balearic slings tend towards being quite stiff and small items don't work well with a split pouch.

Shepherds slings, on the other hand tend to be more lightweight and flexible and significcantly more versatile - as a herder has  a variety of tasks to use a sling for, and different slings for each task makes little sense.
So a lightweight sling with a solid leather pouch just makes sense.

A sling would have been used to direct and herd the flock, as well as ward off predators and also used for hunting.
Dogs, back then were rare, and used primarily as protectors, they  weren't used for herding.

Again - depending on which part of the world you're in - the turkish Kangal, is a large herd protector that dates back to and beyond roman times.

They were mainly for protection against predators, but also stopped poaching.
There are a number of tales of people inadvertently straying through the territory of a kangal pack, and the sudden appearance of an enormous yellow golden dog.
And if you see one in front of you, odds are there are two behind. 


A slinger with a pack of kangals, would be one of the most succesful herders of their time. 

Edited:
Pella (Greek: Πέλλα) is an ancient city located in Central Macedonia, Greece, best known as the capital of the ancient kingdom of Macedon


So yeah, kangals or kangal type dogs. Smiley
This pictuire is a small man and a large kangal.
The average male kangal weight is around 140lbs.
They've been clocked at 30 mph - presumably by someone trying to get away from one by car, lol

Given that roman soldiers would most likely not ask or pay for a kid or lamb, being in an area where kangal type dogs were common, would encourage them to pay for the lamb/kid and not attempt to simply steal one.
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big_kangal.jpg (72 KB | 13 )
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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Re: Shepherd girl of Pella challenge. Expert opinions needed.
Reply #5 - Feb 22nd, 2022 at 2:45pm
 
I'd say 40 paces, 30 minimum would be fair. If this shepherd girl is an expert slinger than 20 paces would be only 40ft (12m). That hardly seems like a challenge. In my opinion the commander wouldn't want it to be too much not in his favor especially since in the second challenge he was gambling with taxes that they collected for the emperor.

Also are you asking this question because you have limited slinging experience yourself, or do you just want the opinions of other slingers?

Is this going to be a short story more, or a book?

I know you said that this isn't the final draft, and there are a few parts you left out and not to be rude, but there a couple of minor errors in the story.

It says she was using clay ammo, but it says in a different place:
"The stone hits and bounced off the beam with an unmistakable thud"

Also the feast at the end doesn't really make sense, especially since the sheep are her fathers.

One last question I have is, where does this take place?
it seems like it at the edge of a town to me.

I'm not trying to criticize your story either, just trying to help you fix a couple things that you may have missed or didn't think of. I've started many books myself and it is a lot harder than many people think it is to write a book or story, even myself. 
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If you know the enemy and you know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle
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Re: Shepherd girl of Pella challenge. Expert opinions needed.
Reply #6 - Feb 22nd, 2022 at 2:52pm
 
I agree with not using modern terms. Considering using other more primtive or period appropriate terms to describe the objects. I feel that would be less likely to take the reader out of the story.

I like IGs idea of throwing it up in the air. For some reason as I was reading about the silver coins I thought the commander would agree to her terms but then he would try to pull a fast one and say something like "I accept your challenge but we will use this post instead." Then he would move to a post due west so the sun was setting behind the targets which would make it harder to focus without squinting against the brightness of the sun.

I dont know why but I thought adding something like that was coming.  But be careful now because your writing was good enough to draw us in and I suspect we each saw that story happening in a slightly different way so dont be surprised if you have many story ideas coming.  Smiley

As for the distance I would say something like 25 meters would be potentially possible but 35 if you want to make it more interesting for a reader who isnt going to know better.
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Re: Shepherd girl of Pella challenge. Expert opinions needed.
Reply #7 - Feb 22nd, 2022 at 3:01pm
 
first - stand a small coin on a post and back up until you can no longer see it.

anything much beyond 10-15 metres is going to be a challenge.

Depends on whether you want it to realistic, or again - have a slinger with preternatural skill.

But I also like the idea of the gold coin being flipped into the air.

Given how much larger the clay ball would be than the coin, it actually gives the girl an advantage. She just has to clip the coin the tiniest amount.

So assuming the coin is 10mm in diameter and the clay ball 40mm.
she actually has an area approximately 70mm in diameter to get the ball into in order to hit the coin.

It's easier than taking it off a fencepost.

And she'd be used to taking birds out of the air. Also a random snap shot is actually much easier than a fixed target.

Your hind brain takes over, the less you think about a throw, the more likely you are to hit your target (I mean I'm assuming an experienced slinger, obviously Smiley
It's all about muscle memory.
Something a herder would have in spades.

The vast majority of her slinging would be at moving targets.
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Re: Shepherd girl of Pella challenge. Expert opinions needed.
Reply #8 - Feb 22nd, 2022 at 3:08pm
 
Curious Aardvark wrote on Feb 22nd, 2022 at 2:22pm:
well try not to reference modern items.
That stood out like a sore thumb.
ie: the size of a dime.
A man's thumb or finger nail, would be a better comparison.

15 paces would be reasonable, far enough to be difficult but near enough to be doable with a lot of practice. 


It depends on whether the girl is supposed to be preternaturally skilled, or just skilled.


If you're looking for just europaen myths and sling tales, then fine - but there is a rich vein of slinging stories and genuine historical sling usage in indian history and mythology.

The more I learn about it, the more I'm amazed of the overall ignorance of indian sling usage in the western world.

did the romans get as far as india ?
Probably.

Also it's far  more likely for the girl to be herding goats, rather than sheep.
Goats were by far the most commonly herded animal in the ancient world, and in fact are still the most commonly herded animal in the world today.


Given that roman soldiers would most likely not ask or pay for a kid or lamb


The Romans did not get to India. The Greeks did though.


When I read it I was thinking the same thing, they would most likely steal what they needed.
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If you know the enemy and you know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle
           - Sun Tzu


Happy Slinging, and God bless my friend.
 
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IronGoober
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Re: Shepherd girl of Pella challenge. Expert opinions needed.
Reply #9 - Feb 22nd, 2022 at 3:08pm
 
Curious Aardvark wrote on Feb 22nd, 2022 at 3:01pm:
first - stand asmall coin on a post and back up until you can no longer see it.

anything much beyond 10-15 metres is going to be a challenge.

Depends on how good your eyesight is. When I was a teen, I could easily see a penny from probably about 40m away. Not anymore.
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John R.
 
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Re: Shepherd girl of Pella challenge. Expert opinions needed.
Reply #10 - Feb 22nd, 2022 at 3:13pm
 
Curious Aardvark wrote on Feb 22nd, 2022 at 3:01pm:
first - stand a small coin on a post and back up until you can no longer see it.


She could be very far-sighted, also I think it was supposed to be very sunny so you would be able to see the coin at a farther distance (if facing the right way) than without any sun.
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If you know the enemy and you know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle
           - Sun Tzu


Happy Slinging, and God bless my friend.
 
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Re: Shepherd girl of Pella challenge. Expert opinions needed.
Reply #11 - Feb 22nd, 2022 at 3:18pm
 
Yeah there is that. Smiley
I've always assumed that as our ancestors did a lot of close up work, frequently in poor light, they'd tend towards short sightedness.

The design of iron age hillforts definitely suggests that this is the case.

But if she's a youngish girl, she might still have excellent sight.

This is definitely a case for doing a practical experiment.

Find someone with 20-20 vision and see at what distance they can comfortably see a small coin. 

While it is possible to hit a target you can't actually see - as long as it's a decent size and you know where it is - accurate slinging does depend heavily on being able to see what you are slinging at.

Actually I guess a lot depends on depends which 'romans' we're talking about.

The holy roman empire was greek - not italian.

But no roman soldier worth his salt (pay) would buy an animal he could steal. Hence the presence of herd protection dogs, to change their habits Smiley   
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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Re: Shepherd girl of Pella challenge. Expert opinions needed.
Reply #12 - Feb 22nd, 2022 at 4:15pm
 
All questions have been answered. Thanks everyone!
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« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2022 at 11:48am by Easybreeze »  
 
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Easybreeze
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Re: Shepherd girl of Pella challenge. Expert opinions needed.
Reply #13 - Feb 22nd, 2022 at 4:34pm
 
All questions have been answered. Thanks everyone!
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« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2022 at 11:48am by Easybreeze »  
 
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Re: Shepherd girl of Pella challenge. Expert opinions needed.
Reply #14 - Feb 22nd, 2022 at 4:42pm
 
All questions have been answered. Thanks everyone!
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« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2022 at 11:48am by Easybreeze »  
 
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