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Gotta Wonder Where This Ends (Read 2657 times)
Curious Aardvark
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Re: Gotta Wonder Where This Ends
Reply #15 - Feb 8th, 2022 at 7:48am
 
It does beg the question why doesn;t someone take out putin ?

Without him, russia would become a fairly normal country.

But I suppose if one head of state gets taken out, then it becomes fair game on them all.

And none of them want to be dodging assasins.

Plus it;s harder than you think lol

I believe the cia had 57 (or thereabouts ) unsuccesful attempts to take out fidel castro.
Including poisoined cigars.
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AncientCraftwork
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Re: Gotta Wonder Where This Ends
Reply #16 - Feb 8th, 2022 at 11:54am
 
Russia is actually quite normal nowadays, a nice place to be. Belarussia is even nicer, very traditional, good morals and values, nice people and country side. Probably my favorite country in Europe, Belarussia. No qr code crap. I may move there one day. Then again I am a traditionalist and against the so called 'progressive' movement, which to me is anti christ. I don't like the communist past sure, but after a few decades and after Stalin the USSR countries somewhat returned to tradition. But during the civil war in the 1910s there , I would have backed the White movement and supported the Russian Monarchy against the reds.
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perpetualstudent
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Re: Gotta Wonder Where This Ends
Reply #17 - Feb 8th, 2022 at 11:56am
 
My favorite was the exploding clam shell.
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"Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no more;they know nothing about themselves and they pass no judgement upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our own guide and ruler, Reason."
 
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Re: Gotta Wonder Where This Ends
Reply #18 - Feb 9th, 2022 at 12:17am
 
AncientCraftwork wrote on Feb 8th, 2022 at 11:54am:
Russia is actually quite normal nowadays, a nice place to be. Belarussia is even nicer, very traditional, good morals and values, nice people and country side. Probably my favorite country in Europe, Belarussia. No qr code crap. I may move there one day. Then again I am a traditionalist and against the so called 'progressive' movement, which to me is anti christ. I don't like the communist past sure, but after a few decades and after Stalin the USSR countries somewhat returned to tradition. But during the civil war in the 1910s there , I would have backed the White movement and supported the Russian Monarchy against the reds.


† †I'm sure that Belarus is a lovey country.† But it boggles my mind that someone who hates to be told what to do to the point that he considers a simple vaccination a violation of his personal rights would want to live under one of the most repressive dictatorships in the world.† No offense intended but it makes absolutely no sense to me.
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Re: Gotta Wonder Where This Ends
Reply #19 - Feb 9th, 2022 at 2:22am
 
AncientCraftwork wrote on Feb 8th, 2022 at 11:54am:
Russia is actually quite normal nowadays, a nice place to be. Belarussia is even nicer, very traditional, good morals and values, nice people and country side. Probably my favorite country in Europe, Belarussia. No qr code crap. I may move there one day. Then again I am a traditionalist and against the so called 'progressive' movement, which to me is anti christ. I don't like the communist past sure, but after a few decades and after Stalin the USSR countries somewhat returned to tradition. But during the civil war in the 1910s there , I would have backed the White movement and supported the Russian Monarchy against the reds.


You are quite the traditionalist, youíre still expressing sentiment for a war over 100 years ago between two awful governments. I guess Belarus is continuing the tradition of being a repressive authoritarian nightmare with a relatively low standard of living. But to each their own.

And I donít know what you mean by ďprogressive movementĒ (and I donít really need to know because Iím pretty sure that would devolve into a political argument), but progressive is more of an attitude instead of a movement. Same thing with being traditional. And the two arenít mutually exclusive, a person who thinks of themselves as progressive might have a strong sense of tradition and a person who describes themselves as traditional might see the need for progress. But really, what even are progress and tradition anyways? What one person calls progress, another might call tradition.

I encounter things that go against both of my progressive and traditional attitudes all of the time, but I couldnít imagine something terrible enough to make me move to Belarus.
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Re: Gotta Wonder Where This Ends
Reply #20 - Feb 9th, 2022 at 8:34am
 
No idea about Belarus, have any of you apart from j been there ?

If he's been there then his knowledge is much greater than any of ours.

To put this in perspective the standard British view of the United States, is of a incredibly violent place, peopled by poorly educated gun obsessed maniacs, where you are extremely likely to get shot just walking down the street.

Now I have been to America a number of times, and I haven't been shot once, not even a little bit (although I will definitely avoid certain areas of Texas in the future)

I like aneticaand most of the Americans I've met,
My view of the average American is vastly out of kilter with the normal British attitude.

So, as they say, before passing judgement on somewhere you have not been - go there.
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perpetualstudent
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Re: Gotta Wonder Where This Ends
Reply #21 - Feb 9th, 2022 at 8:36am
 
I found a nordic dude who married a russian and lives in rural russia on youtube, I found him when I was researching foot wraps but he also taught me a new way to build a campfire. While I have no desire to live in Russia I imagine I'd rather live in his position than go back to NYC, especially given the current situation.

Things tend to be complex. And we tend to cast our country in the best light and others in the worst.
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"Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no more;they know nothing about themselves and they pass no judgement upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our own guide and ruler, Reason."
 
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Re: Gotta Wonder Where This Ends
Reply #22 - Feb 9th, 2022 at 9:37pm
 
CA, thatís a good point, but not exactly fair. Iím not judging the Belarusians. Iím judging their government. I sympathize with the Belarusians who tried to protest against a sham election. I may have exaggerated its issues for effect, but that doesnít mean that itís terribly misunderstood. I donít have to go there to know that itís not very free, and thatís a big no no for me and for most people. To me, moving to a place like that is incomprehensible. But to each their own, the ďprogressive movementĒ must be pretty frightening.
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Re: Gotta Wonder Where This Ends
Reply #23 - Feb 10th, 2022 at 10:52am
 
To a certain extent you're right, the living conditions of chinese factory workers are fairly well documented for instance. But CA is more correct, we ought be very careful when we speak of countries and peoples that are not us and with whom we have limited contact.

I imagine it is as scary to him as "traditional values" are to you. Or perhaps we all ought refrain from dismissal and scare quotes.
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"Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no more;they know nothing about themselves and they pass no judgement upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our own guide and ruler, Reason."
 
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Hirtius
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Re: Gotta Wonder Where This Ends
Reply #24 - Feb 10th, 2022 at 4:00pm
 
ďTraditional valuesĒ arenít scary at all, I myself have many of them. Really, itís a goofy term that can mean anything. I donít look at the world in those terms.

I did say CA is right, I was harsh. But there are some things that go beyond the pale for what is seen as acceptable in a country. Autocracy is one of those things. I canít imagine most of us keep an open mind about the Chinese government. But Iíve never been there and most people havenít. But we have our opinions about it. Should we refrain from judgement? I donít think so. I guess this comparison is recently relevant because there are a few American born athletes who compete for China in the Olympics. Although there is a notable exception, usually it requires only being able to have Chinese citizenship. They probably have their own reasons, but I canít wrap my head around it. What do you have to give up and what do you have to overlook to do that?

I live in a place that doesnít match my personal or political views, but to me thatís ok. Thereís always hope that things can change, and I can live as I want. I canít imagine limiting myself like that, even if it did happen to line up with my beliefs. I know I should refrain from dismissal, but some things are just too perplexing. I guess Iím not even capable of understanding. It ultimately doesnít matter, J shouldnít and probably wonít let me dissuade them from their dreams.
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Re: Gotta Wonder Where This Ends
Reply #25 - Feb 11th, 2022 at 8:11am
 
     I have been and lived in countries where civil rights are a joke.  I seriously doubt anyone here would enjoy such places.
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AncientCraftwork
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Re: Gotta Wonder Where This Ends
Reply #26 - Feb 13th, 2022 at 4:42pm
 
Biden: "I had been calling Putin the whole day! He is not answering my calls."
Biden's assistant: "Mr. President, you were using the TV remote control."
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: Gotta Wonder Where This Ends
Reply #27 - Feb 14th, 2022 at 6:42am
 
I know where you're coming from with regards to govenrments.

Classic example.
I have been to china, i went around 25 years ago, when a tourist group was still accompanied by a member of the tourist police and we had to use special tourist currency.

But even then, when i was walking across tianmin square and envisaging the tanks. You could have been excused for thinking you were in the central square of ANY capital city anywhere in the world.

We all know that china's government is one of the most totalitarian around. But That is NOT what it's like living there are walking around.

In most respects china is the most western and commercial country in the world.

Governments do not always make the country, is my point.

And also that only be going somewhere and interacting with the locals, can you ever reallly know what somewhere is like to live in.

Also television does not help - news programs only show the worst things as up beat or normal things are not considered newsworthy.

And with america - well most of the world gets it's opinions from film and television - very few of which ever reflect any kind of reality.
Or if they do they reflect only the worst aspects of soceity.

So yeah we all know beklearus is run by a dictator. But unless you've actually been there, you can't know what it's like to live there.

I'm pretty sure that mkost of the world thinks that London is typical of england.

Oh god no !
London is a shithole, it's 1 square mile of history surrounded by a massive housing estate, and it's dirty, grubby and the people are generaly rude and unwelcoming.

I think of london as a seperate city state, and not any part of the reality of the rest of the country.

But the outside world has no way of knowing that based on the films and tv that are out there in the wider world.
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Re: Gotta Wonder Where This Ends
Reply #28 - Feb 14th, 2022 at 3:13pm
 
Youíre right, governments do not always make the country. But they often play a very big part. You use the example of China, and the Chinese government touches a lot of parts of life. Going back to what J was saying about Belarus, some of the reasons it might be ďtraditionalĒ could be legal. Even if the government isnít directly doing anything, the way it works can shape the values and political discourse. Look at Americans, the way we look at things is still shaped by the arguments and decisions from several hundred years ago.

While youíre right about things in the news and on tv shaping our perceptions, Belarus really not coming to my attention before their protests, you might be a bit cynical about what people understand. Iíve never thought of the UK as as all like London. When Iíve talked to people in Europe, while there might be some stereotypes about America, usually people understand that the world is often a little nuanced. Going back to China, I thereís a lot of stuff Iíd like to see there, and probably a lot of cool people. But thereís still something very wrong there. Unfortunately, as many Olympic athletes are finding out, itís kind of hard to ignore.
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Re: Gotta Wonder Where This Ends
Reply #29 - Feb 15th, 2022 at 8:37am
 
     Those who know history will recognize that Putin is doing exactly what Hitler did prior to WWII.

Russia's parliament asks Putin to recognize breakaway regions in Ukraine
Russia's parliament voted for a law on Tuesday that calls on President Vladimir Putin to recognize two Russian-controlled breakaway regions in eastern Ukraine as independent.

The measure is a formal appeal to Putin to recognize the self-declared Donetsk and Luhansk people's republics, in an area of southeastern Ukraine known as the Donbas, where Russian-backed separatists forces have been battling the Ukrainian army since 2014.
Such recognition would open a path for Russia to formally annex the two regions as it did the Crimean Peninsula almost eight years ago. It's now up to Putin to decide whether.....

     I think we all know which way Putin will decide.
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