Welcome, Guest. Please Login
SLINGING.ORG
 
Home Help Search Login


Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
Serious Question about Practice (Read 757 times)
SerKraus
Senior Member
****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 254
Gender: male
Serious Question about Practice
Jan 6th, 2022 at 10:17pm
 
If someone wants to be a good slinger, they'll have to practice. However, what is the optimal way to practice? Collectively, if we want to take slinging to the next level, we'll have to do it more seriously, consistently, and systematically. If we always search for novelty through different slings, ammunition, distances, and targets too often, we'll never truly be practicing. Horsing around is insanely fun but it's not practice. If someone were to program slinging as if it were a training program, how should they do it?

Undoubtedly, consistency is key. In my opinion, to hone pure skill, a slinger should use the same sling, ammunition (both shape and weight), target, distance, style, etc. They should also sling consistently; 200 casts three times a week sounds pretty good. This doesn't mean they can't try out new things but it does mean that it should be done purposefully if they want use it as practice.

Any suggestions?  Smiley
Back to top
 

No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training…what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Socrates
 
IP Logged
 
IronGoober
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


...and now, No. 1, the
larch...

Posts: 1102
California
Gender: male
Re: Serious Question about Practice
Reply #1 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 1:57am
 
Myself and others have been thinking about this a lot. Over 2020 I probably put in close to 100 shots a day, I saw immediate gains but they seemed to plateau in terms of gaining consistency after a few months. I believe I'm missing something. My personal thought is that my biomechanics are just not quite correct. But I also think practicing the same target and distance is not as helpful as being able to switch it up week to week, which wasn't quite possible for me until recently.

We all have our own ideas, but mine has shifted to structured practice with variation in the distance/ target size as being important. Doing tasks like aiming at very small things has also  certainly helped my accuracy (like trickshots). I think sessions of trying to hit something like a coin would be very useful to throw into the training regime. And lastly, moving targets. It's not something I have done much, but I think it is likely to be instrumental in training the brain to calculate and recalculate on the fly.

My next set of training sessions are going to focus on body mechanics and economy of motion to get max velocity with minimal effort. I believe if I can get into that sort of rhythm then I can dial back power and have better consistency and control.
Which will be the next set of sessions following.

That's my 2 cents, I'm sure you'll get a lot of differing opinions.
Back to top
 

John R.
 
IP Logged
 
JudoP
Funditor
****
Offline


Rocks away!

Posts: 751
UK - South West
Re: Serious Question about Practice
Reply #2 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 6:27am
 
Good question. There's a lot of information out there on how to get good at 'stuff' generally and I'd guess a lot of it applies to slinging too.

I do agree a regular program of thoughtful practice is called for. Though I think to some extent you have to experiment and figure out what works, unlike other 'stuff' slinging doesn't really have a big built up knowledge of the best ways of doing things, in that sense we are all pioneers of the sport and have to find our own path.

I find Judo is similar, despite being a big and popular sport all over the world the techniques are very difficult to apply successfully against a resisting opponent, most coaches can only show you their way of doing things and you have to figure out your own way, which can take years, and may not even happen at all with some techniques.

If learning slinging matches my experience from judo it's a balance between consistency and experimentation, you should always bear in mind practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Curious Aardvark
Slinging.org Administrator
*****
Offline


Taller than the average
Dwarf

Posts: 13602
Midlands England
Gender: male
Re: Serious Question about Practice
Reply #3 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 8:19am
 
Well a lot actually depends on what your definition of a 'good slinger' actually is.

For me fixed distance target shooting is just one small aspect of slinging in general.

Other aspects would include:
Pure distance slinging
Random distance slinging
Moving target slinging
Speed slinging
Learning different slinging styles  - different styles suit different sling uses
Heavy missile slinging
Lightweight missile slinging.
And most likely a few more that don't spring readily to mind.

To be a good slinger, I feel you need to try and master as much sling usage variety as possible.

Short distance target slinging, is fun and pretty easy to train for.
And if competition slinging is all you are interested in, then yes: consistency is king.

If you're interested in becoming a more rounded slinger with a wider variety of slinging skills.
Then variety is a lot more important.

For me, short distance target slinging is probably the least practical of all slinging disciplines.
It's fun, but if that's all you do, then you are actually training limits into your slinging.

For others, competition target slinging is the only thing they ever practice.

Horses for courses.

In the unlikely event I ever have to hunt with a sling, the ability to hit a stationary target at exactly 20 metres, will be of little or no use.

Most hunting shots will most likely be snap reaction throws at totally random distances and target sizes ranging from squirrel to deer and most likely in motion.

Were I herding yaks in the Himalayas. The ability to land a clod of mud near on on a moving animal would be a crucial skill.

In India or Mexico the ability To use a scattergun effect to scare and hunt flocks of birds on my crops would be uppermost.
As might the ability to scare an elephant away from my crops, slings would be ideal for that.

So for me real world slinging skills are equally worth learning and practicing.

Target shooting is fun.
And for that you've already nailed the training:
Same target, same distance, same sling same ammo.
And do it a lot.
That's pretty much it.

Much harder to train for all the other aspects of being a fully rounded slinger.

So does anyone else train for something other than competition throwing ?
Back to top
 

Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
Morphy
Slinging.org Moderator
*****
Offline


Checkmate

Posts: 7810
Re: Serious Question about Practice
Reply #4 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 8:22am
 
Let me go Zen buddhist for a second and give you something to think about.

If 999 people jump off your roof and flap their arms and fail to fly are you going to think when its your turn the answer is to flap harder then the previous people? Or are the rules of the game set up to fail?

I think first you need to decide what accuracy is, and then decide if the way youre slinging is within the limits of the definition of consistent accuracy youve set up for yourself.

First thing I would suggest to anyone is to define what your ultimate goal is and then see if anyone, anywhere has actually achieved that. Then ask yourself, if no one is achieving it doing it the way Im doing it is it because of not enough practice or am I expecting too much from a throw that is not capable of that level of accuracy consistently.

There is also a big mental component here. A good example being from the Balaeric bullseye thread.
The diana is, or at least can be, much harder than its surface area would suggest. Its a blank, black circle. There is nothing to focus on but a large area. Aim large, miss large. You also have no visual cues as with most other weapons therefore all focus is done mentally in the abstract. This requires training a mental focus that is greater than exists with other weapons.

Do you think if I painted a typical ringed archery target a matte black that fact alone would make it significantly harder to hit dead center? No. It wouldnt. Because you have visual cues in the foreground to manually focus your point of aim so this abstract, what I call, "Selective Focus" never needs to be trained when shooting your typical bow.

Anyways the above is just one thing that needs to be trained in slinging. One of many things actually and it can be just like a muscle. Look up London cabbies and how their brains differ. You will see what Im talking about.

Anyways this is a subject I've spent a good deal of time contemplating as well. So best not to get me started. But its quite interesting over all. I personally think the answer is going to be a bit more radical than some but Im going to hold off before going deeper into that.
Back to top
 

"I think this guy is the king of trolls of the forum, he waited 16 years just to say this. please pay your respects in an orderly fashion."-Sarosh
 
IP Logged
 
Curious Aardvark
Slinging.org Administrator
*****
Offline


Taller than the average
Dwarf

Posts: 13602
Midlands England
Gender: male
Re: Serious Question about Practice
Reply #5 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 8:39am
 
Blindfold slinging.

If you are going to train for a fixed target at a fixed distance and always use the same sling and ammo and style.

Then the ultimate goal is to totally eliminate thought.
It's the exact same motion.

You are training muscle memory.
So, eventually you should be able to do it blindfold and just let your ingrained muscle memory take over.
Smiley
I always find with target throwing that my throws during practice - before I start to think about it, are generally the best throws of any session.

So for competitions, I generally don't bother doing the queuing up and practicing a few shots any more.
And my first round Is frequently the best.
Unfortunately I don't do enough practice target slinging to keep the same mindset throughout a full competition.
At some point I'll think: 'what if I did this, or that'
At which point everything goes all to hell Smiley

But it is as simple as that.
Same thing over and over and over until you have eliminated thought.
At that point you should be able to do it blindfold Smiley

On a side note, there's a video of a blind woman learning to sling in Guam, that's worth looking up.
Back to top
 

Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
joe_meadmaker
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Slinging Ice is Cool!

Posts: 1894
PA, USA
Re: Serious Question about Practice
Reply #6 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 10:30am
 
SerKraus wrote on Jan 6th, 2022 at 10:17pm:
Horsing around is insanely fun but it's not practice.

Not always.  Have you ever read or watched anything on block vs. random practice?  I kind of fell into the concept at one point, and it was someone on this forum who gave me the actual name of what I was talking about.  I think it was Sarosh.

This is a good one that covers it really well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_5nWKyRzKM.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
SerKraus
Senior Member
****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 254
Gender: male
Re: Serious Question about Practice
Reply #7 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 3:16pm
 
Curious Aardvark wrote on Jan 7th, 2022 at 8:19am:
Well a lot actually Other aspects would include:
Pure distance slinging
Random distance slinging
Moving target slinging
Speed slinging
Learning different slinging styles  - different styles suit different sling uses
Heavy missile slinging
Lightweight missile slinging.
And most likely a few more that don't spring readily to mind.

To be a good slinger, I feel you need to try and master as much sling usage variety as possible.


I completely agree! Though those skills should be practiced purposefully if the slinger wants to be as effective as possible.
Back to top
 

No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training…what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Socrates
 
IP Logged
 
SerKraus
Senior Member
****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 254
Gender: male
Re: Serious Question about Practice
Reply #8 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 3:22pm
 
joe_meadmaker wrote on Jan 7th, 2022 at 10:30am:
SerKraus wrote on Jan 6th, 2022 at 10:17pm:
Horsing around is insanely fun but it's not practice.

Not always.  Have you ever read or watched anything on block vs. random practice?  I kind of fell into the concept at one point, and it was someone on this forum who gave me the actual name of what I was talking about.  I think it was Sarosh.

This is a good one that covers it really well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_5nWKyRzKM.


Very Interesting! If someone were to practice slinging randomly, then certain variables would be randomly changed such as distance and target. However, something like ammo weight should be changed with more caution. By horsing around I meant all variables being changed randomly. If I go to a park and use five different slings to sling random balls and objects I find on the floor, and only sling 50 times at random things, then it won't be useful as "practice". For example, in the video, the three kids practicing for basketball were throwing at random distances but they still used the same hoop and same ball. Too many random variables causes excessive inconsistency.
Back to top
 

No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training…what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Socrates
 
IP Logged
 
IronGoober
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


...and now, No. 1, the
larch...

Posts: 1102
California
Gender: male
Re: Serious Question about Practice
Reply #9 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 3:57pm
 
joe_meadmaker wrote on Jan 7th, 2022 at 10:30am:
SerKraus wrote on Jan 6th, 2022 at 10:17pm:
Horsing around is insanely fun but it's not practice.

Not always.  Have you ever read or watched anything on block vs. random practice?  I kind of fell into the concept at one point, and it was someone on this forum who gave me the actual name of what I was talking about.  I think it was Sarosh.

This is a good one that covers it really well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_5nWKyRzKM.


If I am interpreting this video correctly, then it seems like moving targets would be the best way to learn how to "read" your sling and adjust on the fly.
Back to top
 

John R.
 
IP Logged
 
Jaegoor
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 2580
Gender: male
Re: Serious Question about Practice
Reply #10 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 4:19pm
 
Vorher müssen sie das elementare schießen erlernt und die Physik verstanden haben. Vorher macht ein Training auf bewegliche Ziele wenig Sinn.
Spezialisieren sie sich. Legen sie sich fest. Wenn sie das eine beherrschen, probieren sie verschiedene Variationen. Sie werden bemerken, das nicht alles Spass macht oder sinnvoll ist. Dann hören sie auf es zu tun.

Mit verbundenen Augen trainieren? Alex wie einfallsreich Tongue
Ich zeigte dies hier schon vor Jahren Wink Cool
Back to top
 

Bono Mellius
 
IP Logged
 
joe_meadmaker
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Slinging Ice is Cool!

Posts: 1894
PA, USA
Re: Serious Question about Practice
Reply #11 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 6:08pm
 
SerKraus wrote on Jan 7th, 2022 at 3:22pm:
Very Interesting! If someone were to practice slinging randomly, then certain variables would be randomly changed such as distance and target. However, something like ammo weight should be changed with more caution. By horsing around I meant all variables being changed randomly. If I go to a park and use five different slings to sling random balls and objects I find on the floor, and only sling 50 times at random things, then it won't be useful as "practice". For example, in the video, the three kids practicing for basketball were throwing at random distances but they still used the same hoop and same ball. Too many random variables causes excessive inconsistency.

I agree with you to a point.  But as was brought up earlier in this topic, the design of a practice routine is going to be very dependent on the goal.  Say there's a person who spends a lot of time outdoors, and wants to be as proficient as possible with whatever projectile they happen to pick up at any point in time.  Then I would say that their best option is to continually use projectiles of varying weights and sizes.  This is assuming the person already knows how to sling in a general sense.

In most cases I think you're right though.  I know for myself, being "good" would be the ability to hit a target from any reasonable angle and distance.  So that's what I would add randomness to.  The sling and projectile should stay consistent as possible to remove them as variables, as you mentioned.


IronGoober wrote on Jan 7th, 2022 at 3:57pm:
If I am interpreting this video correctly, then it seems like moving targets would be the best way to learn how to "read" your sling and adjust on the fly.

It is strange that so many folks report being better at moving targets.  I'm one of them.  I love the pendulum target.  I may not actually get as many hits as with a stationary target, but I always feel like I'm putting the projectile where I want more consistently.

Moving targets may be difficult for some people to set up though.  I think changing your position (as it relates to the target) between each throw is also very effective.  Kick did a couple videos on this not long ago.  He just set tennis balls in random places, then each throw was done from the ball's position.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Jaegoor
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 2580
Gender: male
Re: Serious Question about Practice
Reply #12 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 6:17pm
 
Das ist falsch gedacht. Gut zu sein bedeutet nicht , das ich in jeder Situation treffen kann. Gut bedeutet, das ich meine Waffe und mein können objektiv einschätzen kann. Und das ich weiß wann ich treffe und wann nicht.
Jede Waffe hat stärken und Schwächen.
Back to top
 

Bono Mellius
 
IP Logged
 
joe_meadmaker
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Slinging Ice is Cool!

Posts: 1894
PA, USA
Re: Serious Question about Practice
Reply #13 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 6:34pm
 
You're partially right, Jaegoor.  I worded that badly.  I don't mean I would need to be able to hit every throw before I would consider myself good.  That was just intended as the overall goal to form a practice routine around.

But "good" is also subjective.  It can set whatever standard I choose.  You can use a different standard, but it doesn't make my goals or definitions wrong.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Jaegoor
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 2580
Gender: male
Re: Serious Question about Practice
Reply #14 - Jan 7th, 2022 at 7:43pm
 
Ich denke wir sind nicht weit auseinander 😜. Gut ist daher ein sehr relativer begriff. Ein schütze kann mit einem compound bow hervorragend sein. Ist er auch gleichzeitig ein guter FITA schütze? Ich denke  nicht. Schießen sie mit einer sling sehr gut Tennisbälle? Blei zu schießen ist völlig anders.
Back to top
 

Bono Mellius
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 3 
Send Topic Print
(Moderators: Curious Aardvark, Chris, Rat Man, Kick, vetryan15, Morphy)