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Balearic "Bulleseye"? (Read 2044 times)
Archaic Arms
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Balearic "Bulleseye"?
Dec 31st, 2021 at 11:07am
 
When I made my entry for the online competition this week, I couldn't help but feel that the standard Balearic target could benefit from a small centre point to focus on. (to increase accuracy)

This is what I came up with:
A 10cm circle in the middle of the "diana", and is 4 points for each hit.
The * symbol could be used to show number of 'bullesyes' like the + sign is used for number of 'dianas'. e.g 12 +3 *1

At the moment I envisage that the "diana" would be replaced with wood, and the
bullseye made of metal (like the current "diana").
It would make that metal ringing all the more rewarding, and help reduce the number of broken stones.  Wink
Personally, I think it would also make the competitions more enjoyable.
Also the "diana"+"bullseye" would make a decent target just on it's own, without the board.   

I'd like to at least play around with and test the idea.

Thoughts?
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« Last Edit: Jan 3rd, 2022 at 2:10pm by Archaic Arms »  

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Mersa
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Re: Balearic Challenge-Target
Reply #1 - Dec 31st, 2021 at 6:08pm
 
4 points is too much. 3 points is enough of an advantage.
At the current level of competition it’s unnecessary but a potentially suitable solution when the people competing start hitting higher numbers regularly.

This has already been discussed off of the forum.
Our solution was a hole, in the centre of the Diana just bigger than a tennis ball , this alone would regulate ammo size. Smaller ammo would have an advantage of going in the hole easier but not be as much an advantage on line hits on the Diana. And things bigger than tennis balls wouldn’t score because they won’t fit in the hole. Also line hits wouldn’t go in the hole with tennis ball size ammo.

Until there are people all scoring 10 Diana’s every game it’s not a necessity.


Ok now to have a focal point on the Diana
that I think has some merit , I’m a big believer in aim small miss small. And I don’t think it’s a bad idea.
As for adding points I’m not a fan until the competition proves the need for a change in scoring.
Another solution would be reduce the dimensions of the whole target. Say a 60cm square and a 25cm circle. Both have upsides and downsides but mainly we as a community need to all get better for it to be needed
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Re: Balearic Challenge-Target
Reply #2 - Dec 31st, 2021 at 7:59pm
 
Yes the hole idea I believe has some merit at some point in the future. So long as its about the size Mersa mentioned so it forces the choice between easier line hits vs easier bullseyes.  Currently there is a real advantage to very large ammo. As it stands though I dont see a huge rush to change anything at the moment.

Now...if there was a way to easily have ammo that stuck like arrows that didnt get lost I would love to have a ring target similar to archery. Maybe not as many rings but something similar.

Not because I think theres any reason whatsoever for it but because I love the idea.  Wink Of course thats never going to happen but a man can dream.
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Re: Balearic Challenge-Target
Reply #3 - Dec 31st, 2021 at 8:20pm
 
Velcro balls and target
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Re: Balearic Challenge-Target
Reply #4 - Jan 1st, 2022 at 3:24am
 
Für eine Diane macht es wenig Sinn.
Schießen sie auf eine Klapp Scheibe, wenn sie kleinere Ziele mögen. Ähnlich wie für das Pistolen schießen. Sie können auch eine Tierform verwenden. Man könnte eine eigene Disziplin dafür schaffen.
Bei einer Diane erhöht sich die Punktzahl mit zunehmender Distanz.
Bei 20m ....weiß 1punkt schwarz 2 Punkte
Bei 30m..... weiß 2punkte schwarz 4 Punkte
Usw.
Das erhöhen der Punktezahl erzeugt eine erhöhte Schwierigkeit durch psychischen Druck. Probieren sie es aus
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Re: Balearic Challenge-Target
Reply #5 - Jan 1st, 2022 at 6:23am
 
Mersa wrote on Dec 31st, 2021 at 8:20pm:
Velcro balls and target


Ill be damned.  Shocked
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Re: Balearic Challenge-Target
Reply #6 - Jan 1st, 2022 at 6:34am
 
Mersa wrote on Dec 31st, 2021 at 6:08pm:
4 points is too much. 3 points is enough of an advantage.
At the current level of competition it’s unnecessary but a potentially suitable solution when the people competing start hitting higher numbers regularly.

This has already been discussed off of the forum.
Our solution was a hole, in the centre of the Diana just bigger than a tennis ball , this alone would regulate ammo size. Smaller ammo would have an advantage of going in the hole easier but not be as much an advantage on line hits on the Diana. And things bigger than tennis balls wouldn’t score because they won’t fit in the hole. Also line hits wouldn’t go in the hole with tennis ball size ammo.

Until there are people all scoring 10 Diana’s every game it’s not a necessity.


Ok now to have a focal point on the Diana
that I think has some merit , I’m a big believer in aim small miss small. And I don’t think it’s a bad idea.
As for adding points I’m not a fan until the competition proves the need for a change in scoring.
Another solution would be reduce the dimensions of the whole target. Say a 60cm square and a 25cm circle. Both have upsides and downsides but mainly we as a community need to all get better for it to be needed


I agree 4 points to much for a 14cm bull, so I edited it and reduced it to the nice round number of 10cm. This still may not be a good idea, but it has my curiosity.
I really like the suggestions. The half-size target could be an interesting way to make closer distances like 13m more challenging. The hole in a diana idea is a good way of keeping the metal diana, and you could have a cowbell attached to the back of the target, with a large clapper that covers the hole. When the projectile goes into the hole, it hits the clapper, and rings the bell. If that idea were implemented, I personally wouldn't make the hole any smaller than 10cm.
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« Last Edit: Jan 1st, 2022 at 6:46pm by Archaic Arms »  

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Re: Balearic Challenge-Target
Reply #7 - Jan 1st, 2022 at 6:38am
 
Jaegoor wrote on Jan 1st, 2022 at 3:24am:
Für eine Diane macht es wenig Sinn.
Schießen sie auf eine Klapp Scheibe, wenn sie kleinere Ziele mögen. Ähnlich wie für das Pistolen schießen. Sie können auch eine Tierform verwenden. Man könnte eine eigene Disziplin dafür schaffen.
Bei einer Diane erhöht sich die Punktzahl mit zunehmender Distanz.
Bei 20m ....weiß 1punkt schwarz 2 Punkte
Bei 30m..... weiß 2punkte schwarz 4 Punkte
Usw.
Das erhöhen der Punktezahl erzeugt eine erhöhte Schwierigkeit durch psychischen Druck. Probieren sie es aus

Fair enough.
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Re: Balearic "Bulleseye"?
Reply #8 - Jan 3rd, 2022 at 1:56pm
 
Mersa wrote on Dec 31st, 2021 at 6:08pm:
Until there are people all scoring 10 Diana’s every game it’s not a necessity.

As soon as someone hits 10 dianas at 13m (which I think is coming sooner than you think), I think it's worth looking at the addition of a bullseye. Yes there is 20 and 30m, but at that distance tennis balls are not longer decent ammo.
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Re: Balearic "Bulleseye"?
Reply #9 - Jan 3rd, 2022 at 4:17pm
 
Rusty Bälle  Roll Eyes Tongue Cool
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Re: Balearic "Bulleseye"?
Reply #10 - Jan 3rd, 2022 at 5:57pm
 
I’m not opposed to the idea but I still think 4 is too much that makes a possible 40 points . For 10 throws it literally doubles the potential score possible now. Even 3 is pushing it up. Perhaps the bull doesn’t score different unless there’s a tie kinda how Diana’s work .

I still think that the competition level isn’t quite there. We would need a few slingers regularly hitting perfect rounds for it to be needed. But as a discussion it’s good to think of things in advance.

Great rounds by the way.
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Re: Balearic "Bulleseye"?
Reply #11 - Jan 4th, 2022 at 5:02pm
 
Mersa wrote on Jan 3rd, 2022 at 5:57pm:
I’m not opposed to the idea but I still think 4 is too much that makes a possible 40 points . For 10 throws it literally doubles the potential score possible now. Even 3 is pushing it up. Perhaps the bull doesn’t score different unless there’s a tie kinda how Diana’s work .

I still think that the competition level isn’t quite there. We would need a few slingers regularly hitting perfect rounds for it to be needed. But as a discussion it’s good to think of things in advance.

Great rounds by the way.


The area of the board is 14400cm^2, the diana is 1963cm^2, and the bull is 78.5cm^2.
In percent this means the Diana has 13.6% the area of the board, and the Bullseye is 4% the area of the diana.

If you were to scale the points by proportion of surface area, then a 4 point bullseye would be ~18.4cm in diameter. That's why I personally don't think 4 point is too much for a 10cm bull.

It won't be beneficial for most, but I think the more practiced folks would take good advantage of it.

And thanks! Funny that we made the new top-score at the same time, with the same number of dianas.
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Re: Balearic "Bulleseye"?
Reply #12 - Jan 4th, 2022 at 5:41pm
 
I’m more into the idea that more newbies join the challenge and having such a dramatic change in scoring makes it less likely for people who are learning to participate. Realistically there’s only a handful of us that might make it to scoring perfect  20+10 rounds in the near future but Even if a group was hitting those scores regularly were only hitting them at 13m, why not retire and focus on further distances like 20/30m

Currently the way the scoring system works it’s super inclusive for all skill levels.
I’ll give 3 scenarios why I think we don’t need to change.

Scenario 1
2 newish slingers have a round of 5 balls , slinger 1 throws a miss 3 Quattro and a Diana( perfect middle) in the current way that’s 5 points 1 Diana
Slinger 2 throws 3 Diana’s 1 Quattro 1 miss for a score of 7
Now in your scoring  slinger 1 would win with a tie of 7 points but 1 bullseye.

Scenario 2
Slinger 1 shoots a round of 5 balls  all 5 are Diana’s but nothing perfect.
Slinger 2 throws a perfect bull 2 dianas and 2 Quattro
In normal scoring slinger 1 wins but in your system slinger 2 wins

Scenario 3
This time with 10 balls
Slinger 1 throws all Quattro no Diana’s
Slinger 2 throws 2 bullseye 2 Quattro and 6 misses
In normal system slinger 1 wins in yours slinger 2 wins

I know you’re a good slinger and want to challenge yourself by hitting smaller targets and longer distances but for the competition I don’t think it’s necessary or even desirable for most.
The current system works really really well and I think any changes need to be warranted by the majority of the competitors. Currently I see no need for it and as I started before it’s a friendly competition and we would rather have more slinger join than be scared away by outrageous leads by the top slingers.

My request for you is if you really desire a challenge with pinpoint accuracy why not try the 1 min can challenge.  It is extremely challenging and channing has the current record of 6 cans in 1 min.
Considering the fastest shots ever recorded is 25 shots in a minute if you could be perfect there’s a potential of major improvement to that record. But trust me it’s a whole lot harder than it looks.
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Re: Balearic "Bulleseye"?
Reply #13 - Jan 5th, 2022 at 8:27am
 
A hole makes a lot more sense.

Unless you have three different results from a hit, it just would not work

If you used a wooden Diana and metal bullseye, then any hit not on the bullseye would make the same sound

With a hole - bag or net fixed over it at the back of the target. You'd have three distinct results.

4 points would seem to make sense.
3 seems a bit mean Smiley

Is it a needed addition ? Well no.
Is it an interesting and fun addition ? Definitely !
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Re: Balearic "Bulleseye"?
Reply #14 - Jan 5th, 2022 at 11:13am
 
For a smaller bullseye, I do like the idea of a hole.  If a net is included to catch the projectile, it would just need to be strong enough to do that.  Makes me wonder how may hits until someone rips through it.  Smiley

I don't really like the idea of a 4 point bullseye though.  My reason is similar to the examples Mersa listed.  I think it give a little too much importance to one throw.

Here is an example to explain.  Say we're going to participate in a friendly sling battle.  And you get to pick one of two slingers to join your team.  The only information we have is one round of 5 with the new balearic target.  The first slinger got the center bullseye and missed every other throw.  The second slinger missed one throw and got a quatro for every other.  If I was choosing, I would definitely pick the second slinger as a team member even though he would have lost on the score sheet.  That is admittedly an extreme example, but I think a 4 point bullseye puts the importance between accuracy and precision out of balance.

Here's a thought I had.  What if the small bullseye only gets you the normal 2 points of a diana, but also another throw.  With a maximum of one extra throw per round.  So in effect, you could get 4 points for that hit, but you would need to get the small bullseye and another diana to do it.
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