Slinging.org Forum - What type of bow and draw is your favorite

StaffSlinger

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Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Reply #15 - Mar 8^th, 2022 at 6:58pm

For a straight self-bow I prefer my 50" Mollegabet with 9" levers.

For recurve, I have a wood-glass composite Joseon-era Korean bow made on a James Parker designed form.

If I were rich I would own a 44" wood-horn-sinew Western Scythian replica bow by Jason Beever.

I shoot Mediterranian and thrumb ring; 27" draw, and because I'm an olde fart with decades of shoulder issues, I prefer 30-35# draw weights, so I can shoot a hundred arrows a day rather than 1 or 2 arrows a day with a 60-70# draw.

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Jaegoor Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 2626 Gender:	Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite Reply #16 - Mar 9^th, 2022 at 7:25am Ist ein schwergewicht. 75lbs
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Sarosh Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Posts: 1065	Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite Reply #17 - Mar 10^th, 2022 at 12:09pm @Jaegoor beautiful bow. does it have sinew backing or modern materials? if I ever get the time I want to try make one like that but with hemp backing out of curiosity.
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Jaegoor Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 2626 Gender:	Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite Reply #18 - Mar 10^th, 2022 at 5:31pm it is a historical replica. Deer tendons, various woods and cow horn. i love this bow. mighty padabum
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Morphy Slinging.org Moderator Offline Checkmate Posts: 7933	Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite Reply #19 - Mar 13^th, 2022 at 6:40pm What style Jaegoor? Appears...Hungarian maybe?? How much was it? I imagine fairly expensive. Very nice!
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StaffSlinger

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Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Reply #20 - Mar 14^th, 2022 at 9:07am

Sarosh -- hemp backing on a wood-horn composite bow is essentially worthless. It will not do what sinew does to make the bow function correctly. The only natural non-sinew material which comes even remotely close to the function of sinew in an archer's bow is very long strands of flax, and that would not work for a bow of more than about 40# draw weight.

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Morphy

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Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Reply #21 - Mar 14^th, 2022 at 10:00am

StaffSlinger wrote on Mar 14^th, 2022 at 9:07am:

Sarosh -- hemp backing on a wood-horn composite bow is essentially worthless. It will not do what sinew does to make the bow function correctly. The only natural non-sinew material which comes even remotely close to the function of sinew in an archer's bow is very long strands of flax, and that would not work for a bow of more than about 40# draw weight.

Hmm but would flax simulate sinew though? What are your thoughts on this StaffSlinger?

The only type of backing Ive used thats both natural and simulates the effects of sinew is a pre-stressed silk backing. Its a very good substitute in that it's natural, strong, elastic and unlike sinew, 100% waterproof. It also wont overpower the belly of a bow in compression.

Im working on a couple bows right now that wont have that but plan on making some with it if I can before everything falls apart in America. The end goal being a horn composite with silk backing.

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Sarosh

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Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Reply #22 - Mar 15^th, 2022 at 3:26am

StaffSlinger wrote on Mar 14^th, 2022 at 9:07am:

hemp backing on a wood-horn composite bow is essentially worthless.

I didn't know the bow had horn on the belly I thought it was just sinew on the back. The characteristic I want to keep is the siyahs and the bow profile when strung.

I haven't thought of horn-hemp composite because if I bother to find horn I'll probably find some sinew too, but I'm not 100% sure it wouldn't work. flax and hemp fibers have similar stretch characteristics, 3% stretch before break, sinew 20% stretch.
the hemp bow wouldn't need to be C shaped unstrung, the limbs could be straight with siyahs on the ends. Because of the very little stretch on the back more compression would happen in the horn belly, maybe make it with trapezoid cross section. the hemp-wood-horn bow would probably perform worse than a sinew-wood-horn bow but it would probably be better than a hemp-wood bow.

From what I understand natural silk and nylon can stretch up to 20% so they have some similarities to sinew but they don't shrink when drying so they have to be pre-stressed like morphy did.

out of curiosity do we know how much sinew shrinks when drying?

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StaffSlinger

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Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Reply #23 - Mar 15^th, 2022 at 8:39am

What I know from 40 years or more of building bows and following traditional bow builders around the world is that flax, not hemp, not silk is the onlSilk is useful to prevent splinters from rising that's about it.

You can build a Magyar style bow without horn or sinew easily enough. I've done so. Similar designs are known as the Saami, Siberian, or Finno-Urgic bows. You want top quality bow-making woods. You probably aren't going to get any 70# draw weight, but 40-50# is certainly do-able. Start with a flat, straight-grain billet, add siyahs to the ends -- glued and wrapped in place. Add a riser to the center, again glued and wrapped. Here are a couple all-wood 40# draw bows I built over the years.

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ElmSteppeFull.jpg (28 KB | 17 )

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Morphy

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Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Reply #24 - Mar 15^th, 2022 at 9:15am

One difficulty people have when using silk is not using enough. People often will slap on a few thin sheets and think thats going to take up enough of the tension load when in reality it wont. My early silk backings suffered from this.

Making it a silk glue matrix approx. 25-35% of total limb thickness will provide a great deal of protection on par with sinew, and pre stressed you will get the reflex inducing properties. Pre stressed silk backings are something that should be used more in modern day "primitive/trad" bow building but for whatever reason its not that popular.

@Sarosh are you planning on making horn bows? We have a lot of longhorn cattle around here and Ive played with the idea of trying those. The issue is good horn can be so expensive to buy enough to get a lot of good practice.

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Sarosh

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Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Reply #25 - Mar 15^th, 2022 at 1:32pm

Morphy wrote on Mar 15^th, 2022 at 9:15am:

are you planning on making horn bows?

I wish I had the time, for the next couple of years I'm pretty sure I won't have the time to make bows.
I have left a lot of projects unfinished, more than 3bows, 2 steel crossbows and others. To tell you the truth I'm more drawn to make ballistas and onagers now Tongue

In the pictures a siyah glued on an unknown wood it was a very dense shovel handle. It has been waiting more than 3 years for a backing. Sad

StaffSlinger wrote on Mar 15^th, 2022 at 8:39am:

following traditional bow builders around the world is that flax, not hemp

that's interesting observation. they sell hemp as flax/plumbers flax here so I might have never come into contact with linen flax.

StaffSlinger wrote on Mar 15^th, 2022 at 8:39am:

Here are a couple all-wood 40# draw bows I built over the years.

Cool bows. the only bow I finished with siyahs was 22# all wood, beech and siyahs from some kind of bush, sold for 35eur to a friend, cool experience.
I prefer to glue the siyahs flat on the back of the bow. I wonder why they do V-splice traditionally. From the photos I guess you glue the siyahs on the back too?

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Morphy Slinging.org Moderator Offline Checkmate Posts: 7933	Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite Reply #26 - Mar 15^th, 2022 at 6:54pm Nice man! I love it! Most tool handles around here are hickory or less so, Ash. Both are good bow woods though.
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Jaegoor Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 2626 Gender:	Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite Reply #27 - Mar 16^th, 2022 at 7:33pm why are sayas glued in a v shape? the contact area is larger. more power can be transmitted.
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StaffSlinger

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Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite
Reply #28 - Mar 17^th, 2022 at 5:15pm

You don't need a V splice. I build them both ways. I'm not sure why Central Asian and Easter European bows are glued with V notches. The glue surfaces are not measurably greater than a flat-to-flat glue joint.

The Finno-Ugric, Saami, and Siberian Two-wood Bows are not V-notched; they use a flat glue up and often have a back strip which ramps up the outside of the siyahs, so the foot is sandwiched between the back and belly lathes..

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Jaegoor Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 2626 Gender:	Re: What type of bow and draw is your favorite Reply #29 - Mar 19^th, 2022 at 2:59am it is of course also possible to glue flat. but those bows you mentioned are not that powerful in comparison.
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