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"A good shot" 20th C Ireland. (Read 484 times)
Archaic Arms
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"A good shot" 20th C Ireland.
Nov 6th, 2021 at 6:32pm
 
"The people of Claddage in Ireland in the mid-twentieth century still competed with the sling, saying that to be a good shot one had to 'strike a shilling as far away as it could be seen' (Echols, 1950: 228")

Sounds about right.
If you're not good with a sling, you're never going to hit a 0.92" dia. coin at 100y? If you're skilled, then one could put the shots in the general area and get the hit after a few hundred or thousand throws, after all, no conditions are mentioned (in this excerpt anyway).

Or...
There's thick fog in Claddage.
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« Last Edit: Nov 8th, 2021 at 2:06pm by Archaic Arms »  

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joe_meadmaker
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Re: "A good shot" 20th C Ireland.
Reply #1 - Nov 6th, 2021 at 7:12pm
 
Archaic Arms wrote on Nov 6th, 2021 at 6:32pm:
'strike a shilling as far away as it could be seen'

I love this as a concept.  But I think your stated distance of 100 yards is too far.  The closest thing I have readily available to .92" is a quarter (US), which is .96" (according to Google).  There's no way I'm seeing that at 100 yards.  At least not unless there's a backing behind it that makes it very distinct.

That could be an interesting challenge to all.  Put a coin that's of a close size to .92" (2.3 cm) in a natural environment.  How far can you back away and still distinguish it?

Just speaking for myself, I'm totally in agreement with you that a hit on such a small target as far away as I can see would be as much luck as slinging skill.  And that's with the knowledge that in the coin challenge, I got three hits in one session.
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« Last Edit: Nov 7th, 2021 at 9:57pm by joe_meadmaker »  
 
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Sarosh
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Re: "A good shot" 20th C Ireland.
Reply #2 - Nov 7th, 2021 at 3:15am
 
Archaic Arms wrote on Nov 6th, 2021 at 6:32pm:
0.92" dia. coin at 100y+?

sub MOA accuracy Tongue

I'd say 30m but it is a range that a hand thrower could hit it Undecided. The background color is important also
There is no a set distance or a set amount of throws. reminds me of "sling at a hair and not miss." or "hit any part of the face" is there a magic number that everyone agreed upon?

https://web.archive.org/web/20111015232438/http://slinging.org/index.php?page=th... Quote:
Slingers joined a society or union, and acquired the title of "foner" (slinger) if they passed the following test: fire nine shots hitting each of the crossbars of a traditional gate.
this one includes target and how many tries but not distance

Quote:
But when larger rats would not let smaller rats win once in a while (Panksepp estimated around 30% of the time), the smaller rats would stop playing with them. They no longer wanted to play when it was impossible for them to win, they were fine with losing most of the time, as long as there was a chance they could win.

when playing against another 30% win rate is okay but when competing with yourself or nature I think it can go below 1% and be satisfactory for humans
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Sarosh
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Re: "A good shot" 20th C Ireland.
Reply #3 - Nov 7th, 2021 at 9:11am
 
returned from the range
30m I can see it
60m yes but I think it's a stretch
80m I know where it is by its bigger surroundings and I need glasses to distinguish it
100m I used 6x rangefinder to spot it
at 100m airguns would have trouble hitting especially if you do it with ironsights

P.S.: I used a  ~1" square grey stone with red dirt behind it and the sun on my 8:00

Also I remember years ago reading about english slingers that they didn't miss birds more than a couple of meters at 100m
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joe_meadmaker
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Re: "A good shot" 20th C Ireland.
Reply #4 - Nov 7th, 2021 at 9:59pm
 
Sarosh wrote on Nov 7th, 2021 at 9:11am:
30m I can see it
60m yes but I think it's a stretch
80m I know where it is by its bigger surroundings and I need glasses to distinguish it

That's a good data point.  I'm going to try this as well as soon as I remember to do when I have the time and am outside.
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Sarosh
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Re: "A good shot" 20th C Ireland.
Reply #5 - Nov 8th, 2021 at 11:33am
 
did again the  experiment this time with a coin very similar in size and color to a shilling.
material copper nickel
size 22.5mmŲ
I also used a white and a light blue color plastic caps
white is 28.5mmŲ
blue is 31mmŲ
below there are pictures and the results

I used a laser rangefinder for the distances.
white>coin>blue
@70m there is a hint of a coin with glasses
@56m is the longest I'd shoot with glasses
@25m I can see it with the eye that has astigmatism without glasses

I was in the shadow the sun was on my 11:00

so I'd say they were shooting 30-70m and more probably 50m+-5m
Try it yourself I'd like to know what results others get.

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Re: "A good shot" 20th C Ireland.
Reply #6 - Nov 8th, 2021 at 1:05pm
 
Sarosh,  I like the way your mind works. Smiley

You hear something you're not sure about, so you just put it to the test.

This is excellent data.
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Re: "A good shot" 20th C Ireland.
Reply #7 - Nov 8th, 2021 at 1:31pm
 
Awesome. I didn't know there are slingers in Ireland during the XXe century.
Another country in Europe ?
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Archaic Arms
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Re: "A good shot" 20th C Ireland.
Reply #8 - Nov 8th, 2021 at 2:05pm
 
Well done Sarosh! Certainly a step forward in solving this.

It was cloudy and rainy today, but I went up onto a hill today and wedged a 10 pence coin (silvery and close to shilling-size) into a crack on a flat bench over looking the escarpment. I walked back from the bench until I could hardly see the coin (which was silhouetted by the white sky behind). With the distance measured on Google earth, I found it was about 50y. The coin was shiny so I think if it was tarnished or darker, I would have seen it better.
I will go back on a sunny day and place it in front of a dark background with the sun behind me; this should make it a lot more visible.
As it stands, I think around 50 or 60y is about the practical visible limit, (which fits well with what you found).
Exciting stuff...
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Archaic Arms
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Re: "A good shot" 20th C Ireland.
Reply #9 - Nov 8th, 2021 at 2:08pm
 
joe_meadmaker wrote on Nov 6th, 2021 at 7:12pm:
But I think your stated distance of 100 yards is too far. 

You're definitely right. After testing this in the field, one would need that thing to be shining like a beacon in order to see it...
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Archaic Arms
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Re: "A good shot" 20th C Ireland.
Reply #10 - Nov 8th, 2021 at 2:27pm
 
It's occurred to me that this could be a good, simple ranking system. Stick a stake in the ground that is split at the top to grip a sub-1" dia. coin (US quarter or UK 10p, valid), and set it at 10, 20, 30, 40, 50y. Each increment is different rank, and video proof of hitting it at the given distance, awards you that rank.
What I like about it is that it's not only a very compact and simple setup, but it's historically inspired and a comprehensive display of skill.
Anyone at all interested?
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Archaic Arms
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Re: "A good shot" 20th C Ireland.
Reply #11 - Nov 8th, 2021 at 2:38pm
 
TOMBELAINE wrote on Nov 8th, 2021 at 1:31pm:
Awesome. I didn't know there are slingers in Ireland during the XXe century.
Another country in Europe ?

I know slinging was occasionally a past-time for rural boys in some parts of England (during the same period), but haven't yet heard of anything organised like a competition.
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Re: "A good shot" 20th C Ireland.
Reply #12 - Nov 8th, 2021 at 4:38pm
 
IronGoober wrote on Nov 8th, 2021 at 1:05pm:
Sarosh,  I like the way your mind works.

Thanks! that's a great compliment!

Archaic Arms wrote on Nov 8th, 2021 at 2:27pm:
Each increment is different rank, and video proof of hitting it at the given distance, awards you that rank.

that would be interesting to see, all you need is to hit it once while filming, doesnt matter how many tries.
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Re: "A good shot" 20th C Ireland.
Reply #13 - Nov 8th, 2021 at 8:02pm
 
Sarosh wrote on Nov 8th, 2021 at 4:38pm:
all you need is to hit it once while filming, doesnt matter how many tries.


Agreed. Like the nail challenge! It's essentially a trick-shot, but dumb luck won't get you very far.
I think to be ranked at the further distances, you have to complete the closer ones, then it's less likely to be a fluke.

I think Jaegoor is ranked at 10m or 20m already.
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Re: "A good shot" 20th C Ireland.
Reply #14 - Nov 8th, 2021 at 10:41pm
 
That chart is awesome Sarosh.  I love the idea of trying different colors too.  I'll try to put one together soon.


@Archaic Arms - In the setup of the contest you've described, do you think hitting the stake itself would disqualify a hit?  If not, I imagine a camera would need to be pretty close to confirm the coin is actually being hit too.  Just curious if you were envisioning the coin being knocked off without contacting the stake or not.
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