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Episode 4 Hunting with Mersa (Read 555 times)
Kick
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Episode 4 Hunting with Mersa
Sep 28th, 2021 at 2:23am
 
For this episode, we talked about hunting and then had Mersa come join us to give his perspective and talk a bit about the situation in Australia. It's a darn good episode so give it a listen!

https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-ebt8p-10ed44a
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC27nP0Ik7Ysg0neo_W8rPmg

Now we all know this is a controversial and delicate topic which we cover in the episode, but that extends to the discussion here as well. Please remember to treat this topic with the respect and delicacy it deserves.
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You are a great guy Kick but also slightly scary at times. - Morphy
"Nothing matters, but itís perhaps more comfortable to keep calm and not interfere with other people." - H.P. Lovecraft, in a letter to Frank Belknap Long, 7 October, 1923
 
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Re: Episode 4 Hunting with Mersa
Reply #1 - Sep 28th, 2021 at 8:50am
 
Sweet!  I'll definitely give it a listen tonight.
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Re: Episode 4 Hunting with Mersa
Reply #2 - Sep 28th, 2021 at 11:56pm
 
Listened to this one on way to work this morning - great episode!

It was good having Mersa join in - the interview approach worked really well if you want my feedback.

Thanks again for all your hard work with this podcast...

I think anyone picking up a sling has to think about what hunting with it would be like - but the last thing we want is idiots out there injuring wildlife for a slow and painful death - well done on your warnings and cautions stressing the risks.

Thank you.

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Re: Episode 4 Hunting with Mersa
Reply #3 - Sep 29th, 2021 at 3:47am
 
Thanks CrazyBrave333.
I hate the sound of my own voice so Iím glad another Aussie approved.
Yeah hunting is a touchy subject in general let alone with the sling.
But it was touched on pretty tastefully by the guys I thought. I hadnít heard their part until I listened in.
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Re: Episode 4 Hunting with Mersa
Reply #4 - Sep 29th, 2021 at 9:55am
 
Great episode guys!† I think listening to these is the only time I get sling braiding done anymore.† Grin

I think the interview section worked really well.† Great to hear Mersa's thoughts on everything.† Good stuff man!

I agree to that the subject was covered respectfully.† I think there are people who wouldn't like the anecdote of a rabbit being exploded into bits and pieces, but I also don't think there's anyway to cover that lightly.† At least not without making the point clear about how powerful a sling projectile can be.
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Re: Episode 4 Hunting with Mersa
Reply #5 - Sep 29th, 2021 at 1:12pm
 
Good to hear this feedback. I'm glad the angle we approached hunting from has been well received. It was important we got the right tone and I think we did manage that so it's great to hear others agree. We have some more guests planned and in fact already recorded Cheesy I need to get editing but there should be one ready quite soon.
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You are a great guy Kick but also slightly scary at times. - Morphy
"Nothing matters, but itís perhaps more comfortable to keep calm and not interfere with other people." - H.P. Lovecraft, in a letter to Frank Belknap Long, 7 October, 1923
 
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Re: Episode 4 Hunting with Mersa
Reply #6 - Sep 29th, 2021 at 2:56pm
 
Hunting with a sling has been such an integral part of the history of mankind this episode sort of had to happen. Knowing you guys I knew it would be done well and it was.
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Re: Episode 4 Hunting with Mersa
Reply #7 - Oct 1st, 2021 at 2:41am
 
I have a little bit of criticism, but it has nothing to do with the podcast itself. Iím going to be a bit of a broken record on this, but we donít really have a lot of data attesting to modern sling hunting. There are those few attestations, but there are pretty much no video or photographic documentations of hunting with a sling or of animals killed with a sling. The community is collectively almost completely inexperienced with it. I enjoyed the discussion in the podcast, but I think it needs to be revisited when you have better evidence to examine (I think you mentioned doing that).

I mean this completely constructively, but this was not the best context to bring Mersa in on. Mersa is great at trick shooting, and heíd be an awesome guest to have when that topic is covered. However, the ďhuntingĒ story is a little weak for the discussion. From what I remember, it wasnít deliberate, just random chance. Mersa could guess that it was his sling stone that did the rabbit in, but he couldnít confirm it because he couldnít see it. Unfortunately this topic doesnít have any experienced guests that would be willing to talk about it. As previously mentioned, I think we need to encourage it and revisit the topic later. As of now I donít think we know enough.
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Re: Episode 4 Hunting with Mersa
Reply #8 - Oct 1st, 2021 at 6:11pm
 
Well your almost completely correct.

Modern sling hunting isnít something with any real ďsuperstar ď or any videos etc .

We had a few accounts of  people we know from the forum and I was mainly brought on because I have a story and I have actually hunted (with a bow mainly) so we thought it couldnít hurt to have me on as a 3rd opinion with some experience. My story is an unknown and if true an absolute fluke.

Hunting is a touchy subject, weíre gonna have people on both sides of the debate because of the nature of the slinging community.
Some people will want to hear everything to do with hunting and others will consider it against their morals

Some people love smashing glasses and throwing rocks at trees and u find people on either side of that debate too.

We wonít be going into hunting a lot just because itís not what we want to promote. And we have an unlimited amount of  stuff to cover.

I personally have no issues with hunting in general
But I have some issues with Hunting with a sling

We donít want too much negative attention brought to slinging

I have a project Iím trying to work on that might be a good middle ground way to assess sling hunting but itís not the goal of the podcast to premote. Sling hunting , if anything we recommend against it.

We appreciate all the feedback, gotta remember that kick and nooc have taken the responsibility of running the podcast , editing , fundraising etc.

I think that theyíre doing a great job and applaud their efforts
Both still work and do real life , thereís no money in slinging podcasts.

Hope everyone is enjoying whatís been put together so far
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Re: Episode 4 Hunting with Mersa
Reply #9 - Oct 1st, 2021 at 8:30pm
 
Hirtius wrote on Oct 1st, 2021 at 2:41am:
I have a little bit of criticism, but it has nothing to do with the podcast itself. Iím going to be a bit of a broken record on this, but we donít really have a lot of data attesting to modern sling hunting. There are those few attestations, but there are pretty much no video or photographic documentations of hunting with a sling or of animals killed with a sling. The community is collectively almost completely inexperienced with it. I enjoyed the discussion in the podcast, but I think it needs to be revisited when you have better evidence to examine (I think you mentioned doing that).

I'm not sure what point is being made here.† Should a podcast about hunting with a sling not happen unless there is a video recording of a successful hunt?† We definitely have examples of modern day hunting.† There's the story from Jaegoor that the guys talked about.† Also a former member (Kilisi), who was only here a short time, also spoke about sling hunting.

I think something to keep in mind is that the podcast may often be more of a discussion of a concept, rather than a documentary-like collection of examples and data.† There's a channel on YouTube I watch that has reviews of swords and such things.† The guy always says to keep in mind that he's a sword enthusiast, not an expert.† When it comes to slinging, I would definitely say the same thing about myself.† I'm sure Kick and NOOC would too.† In an open discussion there may not always be as much detail on a niche subject as we might like.† But the concept of that subject can still be quite interesting to discuss (or listen to).
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Re: Episode 4 Hunting with Mersa
Reply #10 - Oct 2nd, 2021 at 1:07pm
 
Today I tried again to hunt geese / swan / duck and got a few close calls. Problem every time I experience is that it is just not stealthy enough, so I have to throw from a fair distance and that makes precise accuracy hard for me and a lot of it comes down to luck. I'd imagine bows have this much less and bow hunters can get much closer to their prey without being spotted. Overall the bow would be far better as a reliable hunting tool. I think carrying a sling is good for a oppertunistic hunting (taking a chance at group of fowl or a flock that happens to be near by ) but going out on a dedicated hunt with solely a sling... is not worth my time when I need to survive. Ivť tried this about 25 times now because I really want it to be true, but it never makes up for the loss of calories.†Maybe others can but I cannot and I'd have to see it to believe it. † Slingers should become shepherds and live from their sheep†and sleep in wool teepees. Sheep milk is good ! Keep the sling for herding, self defense and the occasional (lucky) roast duck
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Re: Episode 4 Hunting with Mersa
Reply #11 - Oct 2nd, 2021 at 6:57pm
 
J you could listen to hundreds of thousands of hunting stories that go the exact same way regardless of the weapon choice.

Hunting is not as most people imagine in their head.
Until you get out and try most people expect it to be somewhat easy.

When I started hunting I did. And I definitely have had much more success with a bow but thatís because Iíve put in a lot more hours in field. Iím sure if I had the same amount of hours with the sling Iíd have a different approach to hunting with it.

Your right bows are a lot more forgiving, shoot faster projectile and require less movement to shoot so in that way theyíre more stealthy, but a sling also has advantages in stalking and movements.

I think they both have pros and cons.

The guys at ďthe push archeryĒ have a break down of hunting roles .

Part 1 ďthe hunterĒ : this is the personality that puts in all the pre work, finding areas , watching animal behaviour, studying wind patterns, clearing pathways, knowing everything possible about the animals, the vital organ placement, sounds that spook, everything, all the way to the animals, stalking, setting up ambushes, blinds , ect the list goes on .
This is where some people lack and some people shine , and itís often overlooked.

Part 2 ďthe marksmanĒ  : this is where the rubber hits the road. The hunter got you there he made all the right calls until you make the shot ,  now the marksman needs to do his job. Thatís following all those hours of practice, the repetition , the process of an accurate shot. This is the shortest part of the process but critical as all for success. Knowing your equipment, the choice of shot and placement, and the confidence to pull it off.
A lot of ďbow huntersĒ are terrific marksman without pressure but in pressure suck(me included) and itís the marksmanship job to control the pressure and make the shot . This is where practice with pressure pays off.

Part 3 ďthe trackerĒ : this is the part where least people practice but the most successful hunters have these skills. This is where you need the most composure, what you do immediately after the shot. Now every scenario is different but this is really where I have personally failed and seen a lot of failure in others.  Sometimes you need to wait and let the animal die , sometimes you need to rush in to finish it off , sometimes you need to take a second shot , sometimes you just walk up and get it , sometimes you follow tracks , sometimes you make grid patterns, sometimes you follow blood trails .

The next few are not as exclusive to hunting but pay to be good at .

The butcher
The taxidermist
The chef


Hunting is a challenge, thatís why we have petrol fueled farms and monocultures of plants and heards of animals . People like easy and hunting/foraging isnít easy.


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Re: Episode 4 Hunting with Mersa
Reply #12 - Oct 2nd, 2021 at 8:19pm
 
Mersa:
How do you have issues with hunting with the sling if you havenít seriously committed to it? We already know itís possible and effective.

And as for negative attention, do firearms and bows get negative attention from hunting? Maybe a little, but at least in the United States itís not much of an issue as far as Iíve ever heard. The negative press is from when they are used against people. There is the exception of spear hunting, but that was due to some really bad PR incidents. Since this is such a big issue, Iím confident that the slinging community can be more respectful. By removing the sling from a context that would prove itself legitimate to the general public, youíre arguing for keeping it obscure to not rock the boat. Frankly, weíll still likely be overlooked, but weíd probably get a little more respect and interest.

Joe:
Iím not saying a podcast shouldnít be done without picture or video evidence, but donít you find it a little weird that there is absolutely zero pictures of any animal hunted with a sling? You might not find that weird, but I do. You know thereís video out there of bolas being used in a hunt? Of throwing sticks? Both relatively recent. We might make all these claims and speculation, but we would be taken more seriously if we had some solid proof. I know some people donít really care about that, but it would make a big difference to those unfamiliar with the sling and some doubters who have been using it for years.

And sure, the podcast may be a discussion of concept. While thereís nothing wrong with that, it is clearly lacking without proof of concept. The entire debate around the ethics of sling hunting is almost completely speculative, and it could be completely wrong. What I mean by this is that even within the slinging community that think that slings will leave a bunch of wounded rabbits outrunning around suffering, while others point to an account where a rabbit got exploded. We donít have good documentation, just speculation and stories. By the way, sword enthusiasts do everything they are really allowed to do to better understand how they were used. Thatís why people have done cutting tests, sparring, etc. You have armchair sword experts, but Iíd trust more active methods. We have a context we can use the sling in that you canít  do with swords. I think weíll get a much better understanding if we do it.

J:
I think you have a classic case of needing to ďget goodĒ. Thatís not meant to offend, Iím pretty sure most of us here suck. It just means you need to work at it more. People around the world were able to do it, so itís definitely possible. And if youíre bringing in survival, a completely different topic, what if you donít have a bow? Slings (and atlatls) are both much harder to use than bows, but from what we know (completely different different topic) they are both older than bows. People survived with them, itís certainly possible. While you at the present moment might not be good enough for that (I donít know why you would be trying to survive off it anyways), but you of the future could be.

In my personal experience, Iíve improved many times over since I started focusing on accuracy to hunt. I could probably do it with a lot of time in and a little luck, but Iím far from anything resembling competent. Thatís why I will keep working at it. I know itís possible, I just have to work at it a lot more. As for the stealth, Iíve had similar issues. However, animals Iíve been around get more startled by my lack of stealth skills than the motion and crack of the sling (donít worry, I havenít actually tried to kill anything). I still have a lot to learn.
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Re: Episode 4 Hunting with Mersa
Reply #13 - Oct 2nd, 2021 at 9:05pm
 
I havenít put in as much time to sling hunting as Iíd like (mainly because I bow hunt when I hunt) but I have had experience with it. I actually stopped trying to hunt with the sling to work on my accuracy and distance judgment. I personally wouldnít feel confident hunting anything much larger than a house cat with a sling but currently Iím probably more proficient and confident in my skills than when I previously stopped. On the podcast I didnít talk about my other experiences hunting with the sling for reasons I already stated, Iím not promoting sling hunting.

Although I plan on potentially filming some of my upcoming hunts Iíd be reluctant to share it publicly. I donít share my bow hunting for the same reasons.

Trust me any thing that involves killing animals has negative attention from certain people, hunting in general does sling hunting would be no different.

My issues with sling hunting are mainly around the negative attention and legalities.
Firstly many places it would be straight up against the law to hunt with a sling.
Secondly most people donít have the skills to use a sling with that level of accuracy. This I think should be governed personally, be true to your ability. Also the energy a sling puts out is extremely hard to gauge. People throw different weight and speeds , so seriously you could sling something and it explode or it could just wound it , it depends on the speed and weight, and also the ammo . Itís a complex equation that we canít easily figure out.
Thirdly itís overly accessible, anyone can make a sling and it only takes a few bad apples to ruin it for everyone. We have teenagers on the forum and we donít want them going out and thinking theyíre hunting, hunting needs to be taken seriously, youíre taking somethings life.


I donít think the sling should be a first choice for modern day hunters.
Learn to hunt
Learn to sling
Then maybe you can combine the 2 .

Hunting is a seriously touchy subject with many different viewpoints and ethics.
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Re: Episode 4 Hunting with Mersa
Reply #14 - Oct 3rd, 2021 at 11:54am
 
I would make a longer comment, but I would just be repeating Mersa. I attempted to get the opinion of someone that seemingly had a lot of hunting experience with a sling (everything from birds up to a coyote) but I was unable to get in contact with them (read: They never responded to my emails). Who are the other candidates we could have called on exactly for sling hunting? We included accounts of sling hunting from members of the forum that I felt were the most likely to be reliable: Jaegoor's account is old, has been repeated multiple times with little to no variation in the retelling and I can believe, both having seen his videos and seen him sling in person, that he could pull it off. KnollSlinger, likewise, his account has been repeated multiple times and doesn't vary and is entirely within the realm of possibility for a slinger. There are of course other stories and evidence but we have a limited amount of time and, as Joe pointed out, we aren't setting ourselves out as a comprehensive compendium of all sling knowledge. Truly our aim is to get people into slinging safely and legally. Heavily promoting hunting with a sling just does not gel with that aim. We felt we had to talk about hunting because it is historically attested, there are modern accounts and human nature is human nature. "It throw rock hard, what if rock hit tasty animal?" It needed to be addressed as a topic but with respect to how important a subject it is.

I think Mersa nailed every reason I am also iffy on hunting with a sling and especially promoting hunting with a sling on a podcast with an international audience with a wide age range:

Mersa wrote on Oct 2nd, 2021 at 9:05pm:
My issues with sling hunting are mainly around the negative attention and legalities.
Firstly many places it would be straight up against the law to hunt with a sling.
Secondly most people donít have the skills to use a sling with that level of accuracy. This I think should be governed personally, be true to your ability. Also the energy a sling puts out is extremely hard to gauge. People throw different weight and speeds , so seriously you could sling something and it explode or it could just wound it , it depends on the speed and weight, and also the ammo . Itís a complex equation that we canít easily figure out.
Thirdly itís overly accessible, anyone can make a sling and it only takes a few bad apples to ruin it for everyone. We have teenagers on the forum and we donít want them going out and thinking theyíre hunting, hunting needs to be taken seriously, youíre taking somethings life.

We made the disclaimers we did because of these reasons essentially.
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You are a great guy Kick but also slightly scary at times. - Morphy
"Nothing matters, but itís perhaps more comfortable to keep calm and not interfere with other people." - H.P. Lovecraft, in a letter to Frank Belknap Long, 7 October, 1923
 
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