Lots of differing viewpoints here. I try to be nuanced in my understanding (i know a couple of you got a laugh at that one) but in todays world its almost impossible not to be lumped on one side or the other. Heres a quick list of my beliefs so far.

1. Im provaccination and skeptical but still procovid vaccination. Ive just seen some things that make me want to wait before injecting myself. I will be taking it if I can find some resolution to the things Ive seen.

2. I have to disagree that covid isnt a pandemic. I do understand where Lightning Jack is coming from but not all pandemics have to be as bad as the plague to fit that definition. Thank God its not the plague. I see the effects of covid every day. Yes its serious sh1t.

3. There is definitely censorship on the subject. So much so that its almost impossible to find opposing scientific viewpoints from good sources. Not impossible mind you, but they instantly get buried under a mountain of google returns for the mainstream narrative. If you dont believe there is censorship you probably need to do more research.

4. My biggest concern is that people in power are using this situation to take away freedoms. My desire to balance freedom with safety does not make me selfish. Nor does my belief that people in power do evil things to gain more power make me delusional. I am on the right side of history on both of those statements.

5. I do not believe anyone is a mindless sheep for having their beliefs. We all are coming at this with different backgrounds and biases. None of us are bias free. But this is where open dialogue has to be allowed. Censorship and mocking do not increase freedom. Censoring one scientific view is not the same as there being a world wide 100% scientific consensus.

joe_meadmaker wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 8:54pm:


True as far as it goes. Which isn't very far. Note the other link I gave where researchers said "nobody expected this vaccine to confer immunity" and that was before Delta became the dominant variant. You can also take a look at (https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58270098) where we are finally beginning to ask the questions about robust immunity (the vaccine's response is smaller, this shouldn't be a surprise). Should we get locked in endless boosters? It'll mutate again. Viruses we can eradicate are the exception not the rule. We roll out delta boosters, the epsilon variant or another will be dominant.

You can choose whether the talking heads deliberately misled or were ignorant (and you can also decide which is scarier) but herd immunity is off the table. By researcher's own admissions, it may never have been on the table.

Far be it from me to stand in any one's way for their life choices. You want to wear a mask, live in isolation, get endless experimental vaccines? Sure go ahead. You want to mandate those same things to everyone else? Well, then we have an issue.

This winds up a thorny question because if this was airborne aids, we would compel that and much much more. On the spectrum between airborne aids and the sniffles, this is a lot closer to the sniffles. So we do actually have to count the costs. The costs to small business owners, the costs to children's developments, the costs to avg people who lost livelihoods and life savings, for a disease with a ceiling mortality of 2%

Sarosh wrote on Aug 24^th, 2021 at 12:28pm:


All good points. What really got me was when you said you have to text the government to go places. Thats unreal. What a crazy world we live in now. I wish I knew where you could go. Montana maybe?

Morphy wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 4:37am:


Any crisis is always created by someone outwardly, but never by itself. Sarosh's opinion is very similar to mine. If I died from covid, I would not change my mind either. In 2019, I fell ill with pneumonia, part of my lungs burned out, I went to the clinic at the 2nd week of illness, passed tests. I had every chance of dying from complete combustion of the lungs, just like from the coronavirus. BUT why is it not a coronavirus? As people die from the flu, no one did anything about it, everyone just stood and watched. The flu constantly mutates into new strains, please pay attention to this, with the advent of coronavirus in which the mortality rate is 4-6%, all other diseases have faded into the background.

Masks are very harmful, the dentist said, it is very harmful to breathe carbon dioxide into the fabric during the working day. The mouth is the dirtiest place in a person, we harm ourselves with bacteria.

Why doesn't any government in the world ban alcohol from which millions of deaths every year? Will not solve the problem of mortality of cardiovascular diseases and cancer? Why, if they care so much about citizens - I have never understood and will not understand this. Maybe I'm just a fool, I don't understand that coronavirus is the most terrible disease on the planet, and governments in the 21st century could not prevent and predict all this in advance, but launched the situation before such lockdowns?

A very interesting topic. The question of speculation in our rights under the pretext of security, I thought for a long time for the first time

If there is no one to protect us from, then the police will not be needed, as there are such countries without crime and police. Therefore, crime is needed at the expense of alcohol so that we think that we need help. But I’m not against the police, I just don’t understand why the situation should be launched so that everything can be chopped off at the root. Take away alcohol, prohibit, take away poverty, put things in order in people's heads and there will be no crime. There are many ways to rid the world of crime

According to the logic of tests when crossing the border of states, you need to have a test that you are not sick, but why should I not do a test every day while at home? What if I accidentally fell ill? As if the chances of contracting coronavirus at home are less than in another country. In general, every day, 5 times you need to do a test according to this logic

Curious Aardvark wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 7:58am:

But before the coronavirus, there were enough threats that had a high mortality rate, higher than that of the coronavirus, so much so that you have to lie and overestimate the mortality rate from the coronavirus so that it can somehow be compared. I have not seen borders close because of the flu, although you can see the death rate from it around the world is high

Rat Man wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 8:29am:

I think that potentially everyone can carry, except for covid, a disease that they do not know about

you can tolerate skin diseases, tuberculosis, is it possible to warn yourself and others against everything when leaving home? You must know that the vaccine interferes with the development of your own immunity, you are injected with body agents like a virus

Hirtius wrote on Aug 23^rd, 2021 at 9:35pm:

But as practice shows, the coronavirus only finishes those who are already sick. That is why it is dangerous for those who are sick with diabetes, cancer, cardiovascular diseases, and people with weak immunity and age. It is dangerous for those who are already at risk from their lifestyle or heredity. I know what I'm talking about as a child, I was constantly sick with sore throat, arthritis, and could not walk because of pain in my knees, in which case it is easy to say that the coronavirus is dangerous to me, because I am already sick. It's just