"If you don't like how things are you can go live in a secluded island" I'm looking for that island.
valuing life and safety are excuses for governments to gain more control.
My country sucks all around
for the past month access to all forests and some parks with trees is legally banned.Fine is 1k € Cause: forest fires.  in the next month the 3rd quarantine will probably start....

If I ever had the chance to move which country/place should I choose? Where is the land of the free?

My 1st thought is Mongolia because of the low population density and because I dont hear much about it on the news

Morphy wrote on Aug 20^th, 2021 at 12:10pm:

being able to do that means there is some basic freedom of movement. in rural areas law is theoretically the same but practically different.

Morphy wrote on Aug 20^th, 2021 at 12:10pm:

yes.it shows how they treat crises in the future. these restrictions are an indication of how power thirsty a government is or that its people want to be treated as cattle or that there is a big division in it's people. all are unwanted. I'd take big division over cattle.

AK for sure. If I were 40 years younger I would go back

    Personally I can't comprehend being resistive to being vaccinated during a plague.  I got my shots back in January and February and I'll be in line as soon as the booster is available in September.
     Plagues have been with us since the dawn of time.  Vaccination has been our only effective weapon.  During plagues there are those who take every reasonable precaution and give themselves the best chance to survive and there are those who preach and live ignorance and stupidity and pay the full price.  I  don't mean to be offensive but this is honestly how I feel.  I am very thankful for vaccinations.

@Rat Man
some people are first in line and some are last. I didn't say I don't accept to be vaccinated. I recently did my tetanus vaccine.
the thing is that politicians muddied the waters with the covid situation.

Rat Man wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 8:41am:

That can be said about everything. inaction is complicity, isn't that what we do everyday?

Humanity betting everything on a massive and mandatory vaccination is absurd. anything massive and mandatory should be questioned and examined.

Sarosh wrote on Aug 22^nd, 2021 at 9:13am:


It's about options.  I was definitely concerned about getting my Covid shots.  It was an unapproved experimental vaccine.  There was a small risk factor.  But what is the alternative?  I weighed the options and getting this experimental vaccine was my best one.  Humanity is betting everything on a massive and mandatory vaccination; not because we think it's a swell idea.  It's because it is our only option. 

I think resistance to vaccines is part of a greater sickness, that we don’t have a sense of duty or obligation towards the safety of each other. For reasons of politics, paranoia, or just plain laziness, we put our own desires ahead of the safety of everyone. And I mean everyone. As Rat Man pointed out, the more Covid spreads around, the more it will change. Vaccines practically eliminated hospitalizations and death, and probably have prevented numerous cases from either happening. Those are the current results.

I think all of this craziness needs to stop. Sure, many governments have screwed up pretty bad on many things. But how paranoid do you have to be to imagine that this current effort is some super government conspiracy to achieve… what, exactly?

For the record, I’m a very skeptical person. But skepticism is different than paranoia, I base my conclusions on what is most reasonable. I guess that just varies from person to person.

I’m more of a “simplest answer is probably the best” kind of guy, and it’s only natural to conclude that the driving force is willful ignorance. People don’t like to be told what to do. Maybe they feel brave or special that they’re going against the flow. Perhaps (though this would be ridiculous…) it’s to create another political wedge issue. Maybe they truly are crazy. Either way, I think we should be concerned that this is what we have come to.

I have a friend who says they know people who are waiting until full FDA approval. It’s a bit silly considering the populace has been testing it already, but to each their own. But the reason I doubt they will get vaccinated then is because it was never about their health in the first place.

One last thing about “freedom”, a word that is often carelessly thrown around to suit an individual’s needs. Freedom is a very important thing, I’d hate to live without it. Freedom means we can do great things. But we should also recognize that freedom means we can also do stuff that screws over (or at least disregards) everyone else. Maybe it’s just me, but I think people should think long and hard about what they mean.

Open question:

At what level of tyranny/censorship would you decide that you cant go along with the what youre told to do anymore? Or how about less than that. At what point do you say wait a second this seems a little odd.

Honestly, this is a real question. Im sure everyones line in the sand is different. Have you considered that question for yourselves?

If you are waiting for some guy to appear from behind a curtain, twist his mustache and say "Mwahahahah", thats never going to happen.

What will happen is a constant series of fear inducing crises where the only answer is to give up a little more freedom each time. Then one day it will get so bad that the people will collectively say "how did we get here?" And the answer is always the same. One step at a time. Each step was for the greater good, each step was to narrowly avert disaster, each step was to prove your patriotism or your devotion to the collective or to embrace "progress".

It keeps happening. Over and over. And each time a generation or two or three has to suffer horrifically before they learn that lesson only for it to be forgotten with the upcoming generations. Each time the upcoming generations are 100% sure it can happen somewhere else but not "here". Wherever here may be.

So again, what's your line in the sand? Ive played my hand but I am genuinely curious to see others breaking points so to speak.