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very pliable slings vs stiff (Read 5000 times)
Morphy
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Re: very pliable slings vs stiff
Reply #15 - Jul 15th, 2021 at 7:36am
 
That was one of my initial reasons for liking light slings so much. You can really get a feel for the throw. Makes sense man. While you made your journey over to pliable ive gone the other direction over towards stiffer slings.

Im starting to suspect 5 years from know we will both realize it doesnt matter what we use. Until then im going to keep on studying it.
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Re: very pliable slings vs stiff
Reply #16 - Jul 15th, 2021 at 7:51am
 
My personal opinion right now after testing many different slings: it doesn't matter, it's about what you are used to and for me what kind of sling you like making. For example I like making balearics and rockmans so I also like to use them.
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Re: very pliable slings vs stiff
Reply #17 - Jul 15th, 2021 at 12:56pm
 
AncientCraftwork wrote on Jul 14th, 2021 at 12:59am:
I notice that when using a ~250 300 g stone and a really light sling, the efficiency is very high, there's no resistance to rotation
so it quickly feels as if you have to tune down power in order to gain control back. A stiffer / heavier sling doesnt rotate as freely and thus is already slowed down, as a result it feels as one can up the power. Reality of this  is I think a trick on the mind.
The heavy stone would leave the light sling just as fast or faster, and likely with less excessive spin, it's just because of how efficient  a such a sling combo + heavy stone is (sling no longer feels like its there) that one has to slow down in order to handle it.
In fairness this should be a good thing I think. For it should allow the user to sling in a more controlled manner
Of course if one wants to retain the feel of whanging a heavy stone, you could still shorten the thin sling or use the stiffer/heavy s less efficient sling.

Your right, the efficiency is very high with light slings, in that the energy consumption is less for the equivalent output of a heavy sling. However, just because a sling rotates easier, it doesn't mean you will rotate it faster, it just means you use less energy rotating it. What it really comes down to though is the powerstroke. In my experience with the "cortaillod" slings, you can't "whang" them like you can with a stiff sling, which means slower slower hand speed at release. The stiff cords of the Balearic can stay aligned though the violent "whanging" motion. Reminds me, I'd like to know whether light floppy sling lags behind a bit during the power-stroke compared to a stiff sling, but I'm not sure (I'll film it and see). In essence, I think both sling types are different approaches to achieve a similar thing, so I don't think the battle will be settled anytime soon.
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AncientCraftwork
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Re: very pliable slings vs stiff
Reply #18 - Jul 17th, 2021 at 12:38pm
 
I wonder if simnply making it thicker instead of stiffer would solve those problems as well. I have some relatively thick slings  and they feel very floppy and supple yet they do seem to have less twisting problems during rotation while still having a very easy and efficient turning-rotation (although at the cost of some increased air resistance.) it might be the golden middle way
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Re: very pliable slings vs stiff
Reply #19 - Jul 17th, 2021 at 8:04pm
 
AncientCraftwork wrote on Jul 17th, 2021 at 12:38pm:
it might be the golden middle way

I think that's one of the reasons you see slings that have a stiff, flat braid for a retention cord, and a 2 or 3 ply twisted release cord. You get twist resistance and ease of rotation in one sling. I don't think it's a coincidence Jaegoor's balearic is made like that either, it's a great concept.
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Re: very pliable slings vs stiff
Reply #20 - Jul 18th, 2021 at 4:26am
 
I think there's more to twist resistance than stiffness (not saying you implied otherwise)
my slings lose stiffness over time, and vary depending on how humid and warm it is. I want to explore whether it's possible to do without real stiffness
we know stiffness resists rotation, and rotating is what a sling wants.
We also know that tension is very important for twist resistance
probably the type of braid and material too, and how that braid locks under tension
of course plied twisted cords under tension want to twist, so that can't be good,
although twisted  cords some benefits that can still make one opt for them, like almost no stretch at all and ease of construction.

So I am making a few more slings from cords I have laying around. 4-5-6 mm round braid synthetic cords but thesed
don't have a core it seems but they are very pliable, they lack a real spine. I also have other synthetic cords laying around
that are very stiff in comparison.

Thicker pliable cords... this is an option I haven't really considered all that much.  Keep the ease of rotation while still preventing tangles. Although the pouch orientation qualities I've yet to explore.
I think a lot of shepherd slings are this way,with their wool round braids.

Something different
I do think elasticity or stretchiness of a sling is not desirable, it makes it feel spongy instead of snappy
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Morphy
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Re: very pliable slings vs stiff
Reply #21 - Jul 18th, 2021 at 9:44pm
 
I used wool slings for awhile. I was convinced they worked great but it turns out i really dont like the stretching.

When you pull into the powerstroke-or pull point, it stretches noticeably which robs you of speed. "I think" lol cant prove this. But if it does then it also likely hurts accuracy to some extent since a good high tension pull through seems so integral to consistency/accuracy.

Any energy stored in the sling via elasticity wouldnt transfer to the stone anyways since the the sling would naturally want to recoil towards the slinger while the stone is release perpendicular to that motion.
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Re: very pliable slings vs stiff
Reply #22 - Jul 25th, 2021 at 8:16pm
 
Okay so I did some more experiments with my thin slings today, and by increasing the gap between the gap between the retention and release cord, I was able to "whang" stones to much greater effect. I detract my statement about not being to whang light and thin slings, because you can, it just requires a very specific motion and potentially some adjustments to the grip.
Another thing that became patently obvious to me is just how important fast and 'perfect' spin stabilisation is. One might sling a projectile and see it fly straight and point first, but at long range it can lose enough of it's spin to become un-aerodynamic and drop (like a stone  Cool). This is particularly important if it has flattish faces, as they rob the rotational energy much faster.  I recon a projectile has enough spin if you see it corkscrew after release (due to magnus effect).
With the 28" 'Cortaillod" I managed 215+m (verified with google earth) using stones. Throwing along a calm river, it's easy to see the splashes up to the ~215m mark which was a log jam (and the best throws were traveling over it).
I will attempt to do the same thing with a Balearic of the same length...
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Re: very pliable slings vs stiff
Reply #23 - Jul 26th, 2021 at 6:26am
 
Man I’ve been trying to crack 200m with my 27” sling for years. Must be getting some power!!
Your video on YT slinging the wall was nice. Great accuracy and power.

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Re: very pliable slings vs stiff
Reply #24 - Jul 26th, 2021 at 2:35pm
 
I still don't like rotating the sling multiple times with the wrist prior to the powerstroke when I use a lot of cord seperation in the hand (which for me is a ring finger loop). It's not safe imo because it introduces oscillations up and down the cords which rock the stone back and forth in the pouch, while a tight grip does not cause this.  This rocking back and forth can (not saying it will) but can cause premature releases in my experience which are a danger to the surroundings.

To me if one wants to perfect the multiple rotations, it requires a tight grip, cords gripped together. This one can rotate freely as much as one like and there's no rocking back and forth of the stone in the pouch, there's no chance of premature release.
But as a consequence of the tight grip, the sling cords tend to be made thicker so they don't twist around while they are gripped and rotated together side by side in the hand, and so that one can still control the pouch angle with the tight grip. The thicker cords as a consequence add construction complexity and decreased efficiency. The tight grip already increases the spin rate, the thicker cords increase it even more. The spin becomes too great for the average coarse rock I believe. This I believe decreases efficency even more. All the more reasons for me to leave this sling philosophy behind and focus on the other.

For figure 8 or Greek style I will place the loop on the ring finger every time, because it doesn't use prior rotations that come solely from the wrist. Both styles are all one fluid movement, there are no prior rotations so there are no oscillations up and down the cords that can cause stone slippage caused by the wide grip. Thus all the reason to use the wide grip with these styles.

aside from that, when I use multiple rotations prior to the powerstroke, this is starting to feel tiresome to me, especially with a light sling and 200g or heavier stones, because it rotates so easily

Right now I definitely prefer figure 8 for everything. Because it fits thin slings so well. And thin slings are simpler slings I think, and more efficient. I get 300 g stones to fly point forward every time with figure 8 and with slings that use cords thinner  and floppier than 550 cord. Pouch orientation is not a problem at all because I feel this style mostly relies 95% on tension and the wide grip for pouch orientation, while styles that use multiple rotations prior to the shot require a certain level of sling stiffness to still be able to control the pouch I think. This I am starting to dis like because this adds complexity to the sling, but a complexity that is detrimental to efficency.  A simple sling is a floppy sling with thin cords I believe and this is an efficient sling. Pouch orientation issues can be solved through other means ( for example swapping to figure 8), instead of  making the sling stiff, thick and complex in construction just because one desires Balaeric style, although that is the trend on those Islands. And we rarely see figure 8 and thin slings there and they are convinced their way is the best way. its all compromises in the end and we have to simply seek a preference. I cannot say anymore one thing is better than the other but of course my way is the best way.  Grin To each their own

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Re: very pliable slings vs stiff
Reply #25 - Jul 26th, 2021 at 10:43pm
 
Mersa wrote on Jul 26th, 2021 at 6:26am:
Man I’ve been trying to crack 200m with my 27” sling for years. Must be getting some power!!
Your video on YT slinging the wall was nice. Great accuracy and power. 


Thanks Mersa!
Turns out I was actually being over conservative and I recon  they were more like 250m, as today I was able to throw much further with a 30" (verified 280m+)
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Re: very pliable slings vs stiff
Reply #26 - Jul 27th, 2021 at 7:03am
 
Woah dude !!
Are you finding the projectile ??
How are you measuring the distance?
Any chance of filming the throws??

I wish I could get 200m confirmed, with the 27”

I’ve done 185ish lots and found the projectile.
All my possible over 200 are just guessing.
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Re: very pliable slings vs stiff
Reply #27 - Jul 27th, 2021 at 7:10pm
 
I just had a muck around this morning at a quarry on my way to work.

I have a very pliable soft Kevlar sling… I found the sharp jagged rocks we’re grabbing on release very badly- and I was thinking about this thread.

So my 2c is with good ammo I’m happy with either pliable or stiff, sub-par ammo I prefer stiff so it’s less likely to wrap around ammo.
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