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Breaking the Law (Read 1222 times)
Rat Man
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Breaking the Law
Jun 28th, 2021 at 3:09pm
 
   Of course we need laws and I believe in law and order.  But some laws are stupid or at least I've always thought so.  Around the time I turned sixteen I pretty much ignored the law and did what I wanted. 
    As a young man I once sat down and figured out how many times a day I broke a law.  It averaged out to about twenty times per day.  That might sound like a lot but I'm sure if you thought about it many of you break stupid laws every day also.  Most of the laws I broke were minor ones like driving barefoot, exceeding the speed limit by a small amount, smoking pot, driving a car with expired registration, etc.  Some were major ones that I probably shouldn't discuss.  How is it that I have no criminal record then?  If you're going to be a criminal the secret to success is to stay small.  Fly under the radar.  Keep yourself unworthy of any major attention.  People get busted when they get greedy and too big for their britches. Then you draw a lot of attention to yourself.  I have been arrested three times; once for disorderly conduct in the army and twice for beating the crap out of someone who very much needed the crap beat out of him.  All three times the charges were dropped.
     So from the time I was sixteen until a little more than four years ago I was a criminal.  At least to some degree.  I never killed anyone, stole, or broke knee caps.  Depending on your interpretation, my crimes were victimless.
     These days I'm almost completely legal.  I still exceed the speed limit by a small amount and my feeding of my wild flock every morning is technically illegal but besides that I practically live the life of a monk.   What a boring old fart I've become. 
    Are there any stupid, superfluous laws that you choose to ignore or are you 100% legal?
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Kick
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Re: Breaking the Law
Reply #1 - Jun 28th, 2021 at 3:38pm
 
When breaking the law it's important to remember the golden rule: Only break one law at a time. The number of drug dealers that get pulled over for a broken light or speeding... Saying this, I'm a goody two shoes. I barely break any laws ever.
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You are a great guy Kick but also slightly scary at times. - Morphy
"Nothing matters, but it’s perhaps more comfortable to keep calm and not interfere with other people." - H.P. Lovecraft, in a letter to Frank Belknap Long, 7 October, 1923
 
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Sarosh
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Re: Breaking the Law
Reply #2 - Jun 28th, 2021 at 4:54pm
 
I ride my bike on the sidewalk
I own darts, slingshots and some bows i don't use.
My lawyer says I'm a lost case
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Kick
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Re: Breaking the Law
Reply #3 - Jun 28th, 2021 at 5:37pm
 
Kick wrote on Jun 28th, 2021 at 3:38pm:
When breaking the law it's important to remember the golden rule: Only break one law at a time. The number of drug dealers that get pulled over for a broken light or speeding... Saying this, I'm a goody two shoes. I barely break any laws ever.

So... I went to go check the weapons laws for Finland (actually because I wanted to double check that blowguns are illegal, sadly they are) and came across something... well it's something.

Now, as with a lot of countries weapon laws, Finland's are somewhat vague, confusing and require a lot of interpretation. What doesn't help is that the particularly relevant ones to me have English translations that are, for want of a better term, awful. It's very obvious that the person (team?) doing the translation had absolutely no idea what the terms they were translating meant and I actually think they used Google Translate for some of the terms.

The Public Order Act (2003) states:
"Chapter 3
Banned objects and substances
Section 9
Dangerous objects
(1) The manufacture, importation, trading and possession in a public place and in a vehicle
located in a public place of brass knuckles, stilettos and throwing stars, edged weapons
disguised as other objects as well as electric stunners and stun batons, spring batons and
precision rocket launchers and slings are prohibited, unless otherwise provided in
subsection 2 or 3 or section 12."

https://finlex.fi/fi/laki/kaannokset/2003/en20030612_20100774.pdf

Oh no! Slings are illegal! And so are... "precision rocket launchers"? That's rather specific... How is it written in the original Finnish?


"3 luku
Kielletyt esineet ja aineet
9 §
Vaaralliset esineet
Nyrkkirautojen, stilettien ja heittotähtien sekä muuksi esineeksi naamioitujen teräaseiden samoin kuin sähkölamauttimien
ja -patukoiden, jousipatukoiden sekä tarkkuussinkojen ja -linkojen valmistus, maahantuonti, kauppa sekä hallussapito yleisellä
paikalla ja yleisellä paikalla olevassa kulkuneuvossa on kielletty, jollei 2 tai 3 momentissa taikka 12 §:ssä muuta säädetä."

https://finlex.fi/fi/laki/ajantasa/2003/20030612?search%5Btype%5D=pika&search%5B
pika%5D=j%C3%A4rjestyslaki

"Tarkkuussinkojen ja -linkojen"? Wait a second! That doesn't mean "precision rocket launchers and slings" at all! That refers to "precision slingshots" (which effectively refers to slingshots with wrist braces, something that has been banned in other countries and areas before) and (as indicated by the dash which shows the next word is a combination word: tarkkuuslinkojen) "precision slings".

You might ask, what is meant by "precision slings"? The answer? Absolutely no idea. It's a nonsense word that doesn't refer to anything. It's just as ridiculous in Finnish as it is to say "precision sling" in English.

So what does all this mean for me and slinging in Finland? Well, TECHNICALLY it could be argued in court that I have broken the law several hundred times over through manufacturing, importing, trading and possessing slings in public places. However, I think it would be an INCREDIBLY shaky case as the law is so incredibly vague. From where I stand, I don't own any "tarkuuslinkojen" because my accuracy is still terrible. It's also important to think about the amount of paper work a case like mine would generate which would, at this point, probably fill a warehouse, and also whether sending me to prison for... probably ever, would in any way benefit the public in any way. I can't see a judge looking at this case and thinking it was worth the effort. I don't think I'm going to the big house any time soon, but I do now take back my initial answer to this thread.

I'm a certified hardened criminal bad ass.
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You are a great guy Kick but also slightly scary at times. - Morphy
"Nothing matters, but it’s perhaps more comfortable to keep calm and not interfere with other people." - H.P. Lovecraft, in a letter to Frank Belknap Long, 7 October, 1923
 
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Rat Man
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Re: Breaking the Law
Reply #4 - Jun 28th, 2021 at 10:06pm
 
Kick wrote on Jun 28th, 2021 at 3:38pm:
When breaking the law it's important to remember the golden rule: Only break one law at a time. The number of drug dealers that get pulled over for a broken light or speeding... Saying this, I'm a goody two shoes. I barely break any laws ever.


This is the absolute truth.  I was an MP for three years.  I would say that at least 90% of all drug busts were due to something stupid like a burned out tail light.
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Morphy
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Re: Breaking the Law
Reply #5 - Jun 28th, 2021 at 10:48pm
 
I could see myself killing game with a sling. It makes no sense to me to allow blunt arrows but not sling stones. The rabbits wont know the difference. Ive done other things in the past.  Which wont be posted here lol. But everything victimless. Using a natural substance some guys in suits decided are naughty is not really something I feel guilty about nor will I ever.

Washington decriminalized all drugs for awhile. I think they are misdemeanors now. The state hasnt imploded. Kids arent running out and buying heroin anymore than they were before. If you are prone to such things no law is going to stop it. If you arent no right is going to start it.
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"I think this guy is the king of trolls of the forum, he waited 16 years just to say this. please pay your respects in an orderly fashion."-Sarosh
 
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: Breaking the Law
Reply #6 - Jun 29th, 2021 at 8:52am
 
well I have always adhered to the tenet: It's only illegal, if you get caught !

I've yet to be caught - so, no I have never done anything illegal - ever whistle
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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Slyngorm
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Re: Breaking the Law
Reply #7 - Jun 29th, 2021 at 2:28pm
 
Like your way of thinking CA  Tongue



My first crime was being  caught walking on train tracks and had a train (on another track) stop and its driver yelling at me.
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perpetualstudent
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Re: Breaking the Law
Reply #8 - Jun 29th, 2021 at 5:53pm
 
I'm a big fan of the Chesterton Quote that "You should never remove a fence before first understanding why it was there"

For drugs I've struggled a lot with the question. I took a course on drugs and society specifically to hammer it out in my head and I walked away without a good answer. To start with, I really don't care if you as an individual get wasted or high and don't bother anyone. I think it's stupid, but I'm more libertarian than anything else. You are allowed to be stupid as far as I'm concerned. 

But. And it's a big BUT.

There is a common good lost with widespread substance use. The house my wife and I bought is a 20 min commute and about a 20-30% more expensive house compared to buying a comparable house for a discount with a 5 min commute. And the reason is as simple as "that town has a drug problem". I don't want to have to deal with a burglar desperate for his fix. I don't want my children to deal with druggies around the park. And the reason the houses are cheaper is because almost everyone comes to the same conclusion. There is a common good lost. Not just safety of the residents, but tens of thousands of dollars in property taxes.  That town is losing population and income because of drug use. Making it legal, doesn't answer any of those issues. They would still be desperate for the drugs and they wouldn't be free. I don't have a good answer. But I have been forced, against my will, to agree that the pure libertarian answer must be tempered.
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"Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no more;they know nothing about themselves and they pass no judgement upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our own guide and ruler, Reason."
 
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Caldou
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Re: Breaking the Law
Reply #9 - Jun 29th, 2021 at 6:05pm
 
Kick wrote on Jun 28th, 2021 at 5:37pm:
From where I stand, I don't own any "tarkuuslinkojen" because my accuracy is still terrible.

If you find yourself in front of the judges, give them a sling and ask them to prove it's a precision weapon Cheesy
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Kick
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Re: Breaking the Law
Reply #10 - Jun 30th, 2021 at 2:46am
 
Caldou wrote on Jun 29th, 2021 at 6:05pm:
If you find yourself in front of the judges, give them a sling and ask them to prove it's a precision weapon

I'll remember that Cheesy
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You are a great guy Kick but also slightly scary at times. - Morphy
"Nothing matters, but it’s perhaps more comfortable to keep calm and not interfere with other people." - H.P. Lovecraft, in a letter to Frank Belknap Long, 7 October, 1923
 
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Re: Breaking the Law
Reply #11 - Jun 30th, 2021 at 12:50pm
 
@kick EU "weapon" laws are just disappointing.
airguns are legal to own here but the law says you can use them only in special ranges(places) but those ranges aren't defined by law or anybody else making it illegal to use anywhere, but no one cares to correct that.

basically the law says everything is a weapon once it is used for violence. so if you hit someone with a stick laying on the ground you will just add to your charges.  killers on the other hand can get a lower penalty for killing because it was the first time or killing on an emotional state. in the past some got their first kill for free because they were cops!
EU is paradise come to EU


perpetualstudent wrote on Jun 29th, 2021 at 5:53pm:
There is a common good lost with widespread substance use. The house my wife and I bought is a 20 min commute and about a 20-30% more expensive house compared to buying a comparable house for a discount with a 5 min commute. And the reason is as simple as "that town has a drug problem". I don't want to have to deal with a burglar desperate for his fix. I don't want my children to deal with druggies around the park. And the reason the houses are cheaper is because almost everyone comes to the same conclusion. There is a common good lost. Not just safety of the residents, but tens of thousands of dollars in property taxes.  That town is losing population and income because of drug use. Making it legal, doesn't answer any of those issues. They would still be desperate for the drugs and they wouldn't be free. I don't have a good answer. But I have been forced, against my will, to agree that the pure libertarian answer must be tempered.


when something is illegal it doesn't have quality control and testing. there are a lot of money involved so adulteration is a given, there will be violence since the selling is illegal and will happen only in those areas practically by order of the police (bribery).

If you dont have a problem already with legal guns and alcohol I don't see how other drugs will make things worse if they become legal.

the same is the case with anabolics or other sports drugs

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perpetualstudent
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Re: Breaking the Law
Reply #12 - Jun 30th, 2021 at 3:16pm
 
Sure there's organized violence around it, and let's say that disappears entirely, but even assuming that happens which I doubt it doesn't answer all the issues. I still don't want to be next door to an addict. Nor do I want them around the public parks where my children play.

We have customs/traditions/rules around alcohol and nicotine (and even caffeine). We still have laws against public intoxication, rules for when you can sell alcohol, transportation laws, rules for serving alcohol (including liability). We don't have that for harder drugs. None of us want to be around someone on a bad trip, nor someone jonesing hard for a fix. The "legalize" folks can't make those problems disappear.

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"Facts stand wholly outside our gates; they are what they are, and no more;they know nothing about themselves and they pass no judgement upon themselves. What is it, then, that pronounces the judgement? Our own guide and ruler, Reason."
 
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Re: Breaking the Law
Reply #13 - Jun 30th, 2021 at 4:08pm
 
@perpetualstudent what applies to alcohol more or less could apply to other drugs. legalization doesn't mean abuse of the freedom.
it isn't the tool, it is the human. the addicts didnt get there because it was their dream. Resentful people will find a way to cause harm to others or themselves with or without prohibition. we can't eliminate resentful people but I think we can reduce the percentage a lot by being fair and just. while prohibiting stuff will certainly make people resentful and we can see how it plays out.
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Kick
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Re: Breaking the Law
Reply #14 - Jun 30th, 2021 at 4:26pm
 
Sarosh wrote on Jun 30th, 2021 at 12:50pm:
@kick EU "weapon" laws are just disappointing.

The problem with most weapon laws is that they are implemented incorrectly for the wrong reasons. I do believe laws can and should be used but too often they are brought in by some politician to look good without actually doing anything to solve the problems that cause people to misuse weapons. The perfect example is the ban on "zombie knives" in Britain in 2016.

"A statutory instrument in English law has banned the importation, manufacture, sale or hire of weapons of this type, having a blade with:

a cutting edge;
a serrated edge; and
images or words (whether on the blade or handle) that suggest that it is to be used for the purpose of violence"

Utterly pointless. Sadly for the politicians, knife crime can't be beaten with simple bans because knives are everywhere. The vast VAST majority of knife crime in the UK is committed with kitchen knives, but it would be chaos if they banned all kitchen knives. So, what do you do as a politician if you want to look like you're doing something for votes, but not actually do the things that would curb knife crime (more funding for education, after school programs to help reduce gang violence, increase services to help those in poverty, tackle institutional racism and disenfranchisement in youth etc.) because it would cost too much and won't appeal to the old white voters that still believe throwing everyone in jail is the way to solve everything and if not jail then bring back hanging? You get your friends in the media to pump out some stories on these "dangerous knives" and emphasize how scary they are and how only sick deranged criminals would ever own anything pointy, then you can come in with a ban that looks good even though it does absolutely nothing to help the actual problem.

Nice and easy. Especially easy when the people that came before already set the precedent with "ninja weapons" in the 80's. It's why throwing stars are illegal in a load of places despite being nowhere near as dangerous as a knife you can buy on sale in a supermarket.

Just to reiterate, I am not against weapon legislation, the problem is that it's so often done terribly by people that don't know what they're talking about.
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You are a great guy Kick but also slightly scary at times. - Morphy
"Nothing matters, but it’s perhaps more comfortable to keep calm and not interfere with other people." - H.P. Lovecraft, in a letter to Frank Belknap Long, 7 October, 1923
 
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