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Paracord popular for modern slings but.. (Read 269 times)
KnollSlinger
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Paracord popular for modern slings but..
Jun 25th, 2021 at 1:07am
 
Paracord is not springy; it is designed to ABSORB energy
when a parachute opens.  For slinging, you want all the energy
to go into the bullet.  So, has anyone thought what would be
the ideal material for the sling?  I would think springy or rigid, but non-damping.  Also, very thin yet strong to minimize air
resistance.  The hand grip on the end could be of a different,
thicker material.

abˇsorb
/əbˈzôrb,əbˈsôrb/
verb
1.
take in or soak up (energy or a liquid or other substance) by chemical or physical action.
"buildings can be designed to absorb and retain heat"
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Re: Paracord popular for modern slings but..
Reply #1 - Jun 27th, 2021 at 7:31am
 
Dyneema is very good modern material for slings
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joe_meadmaker
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Re: Paracord popular for modern slings but..
Reply #2 - Jun 27th, 2021 at 12:20pm
 
KnollSlinger wrote on Jun 25th, 2021 at 1:07am:
I would think springy or rigid

What do you mean by 'springy'?  This makes me think of something that will stretch under pressure and return to its original form.  Would that not also be energy absorbing?


Paracord will absorb energy, but just like any other cordage it does this by stretching.  I don't think the normal forces that occur during slinging are enough to stretch paracord much (if at all).
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KnollSlinger
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The Davidson Road KnollSlinger

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Re: Paracord popular for modern slings but..
Reply #3 - Jun 27th, 2021 at 2:48pm
 
joe_meadmaker wrote on Jun 27th, 2021 at 12:20pm:
KnollSlinger wrote on Jun 25th, 2021 at 1:07am:
I would think springy or rigid

What do you mean by 'springy'?  This makes me think of something that will stretch under pressure and return to its original form.  Would that not also be energy absorbing?


Paracord will absorb energy, but just like any other cordage it does this by stretching.  I don't think the normal forces that occur during slinging are enough to stretch paracord much (if at all).

How does that compare to this?  It should take 200 lb split between the two cords.
Aramid rope ARABRAID ř0,4mm 500m reel 6-strand braided by KaniropeŽ - high-quality product manufactured in Germany, braided of high-quality TwaronŽ yarns. Aramid rope is very tear- and heat-resistant, non-flammable and extremely low stretchable. Aramid ropes do not melt at high temperatures, but starts charring from 932° F (500°C).

Diameter: 0,4mm
Length: 500m
Construction: 6-strand braided
Breaking load: 45daN (kg)
Working stretch: <1,5%
Breaking stretch: 2-4%
Material: 100% Aramid
Colour: yellow
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The Davidson Road KnollSlinger

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Re: Paracord popular for modern slings but..
Reply #4 - Jun 27th, 2021 at 2:53pm
 
Mersa wrote on Jun 27th, 2021 at 7:31am:
Dyneema is very good modern material for slings

Energy should all be transmitted to the bullet, not adsorbed by the rope.  How does it compare to Aramids?
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The Davidson Road KnollSlinger

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Re: Paracord popular for modern slings but..
Reply #5 - Jun 27th, 2021 at 2:56pm
 
joe_meadmaker wrote on Jun 27th, 2021 at 12:20pm:
KnollSlinger wrote on Jun 25th, 2021 at 1:07am:
I would think springy or rigid

What do you mean by 'springy'?  This makes me think of something that will stretch under pressure and return to its original form.  Would that not also be energy absorbing?
.

spring means the energy is stored and returned to the bullet at release. This is good. Damping absorption of energy just wastes the energy by  heating the rope as it stretches.  this is very bad.
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Re: Paracord popular for modern slings but..
Reply #6 - Jun 27th, 2021 at 10:26pm
 
Slings do not store energy.  If you stop putting energy into the sling, it will just stop.  There is no potential energy to be released.

If you're looking for a very thin and strong cordage, that aramid rope sounds like it could work.  But from the specs you posted it also sounds awfully thin.  At 0.4 mm I would be concerned with the cord twisting.  I remember a video that Sarosh did.  He tested a sling with very long and thin cords.  As I recall, there were definitely problems with them getting twisted up while being rotated.
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Re: Paracord popular for modern slings but..
Reply #7 - Jun 27th, 2021 at 11:34pm
 
if you stop energy putting in hopefully that is the release point and the bullet will not stop.  I have used springy slings that do store potential energy.  I have also used golf clubs whose shafts bend and release that energy as well.
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Re: Paracord popular for modern slings but..
Reply #8 - Jun 28th, 2021 at 7:36pm
 
The stop will need to be after release.  At release you'll want to be at max energy.

The only way I could see a sling storing potential energy is if you had an almost completely rigid retention cord (although it would be more of a stick or shaft) that would bend as you threw a projectile.  Then it could spring back into form as you came to the end of the throwing motion.  A similar idea came up in one of the other topics.  I believe the discussion was if one bow limb could possibly be used to throw a stone.  The force needed to bend the limb would need to be matched to the weight of the stone being thrown.
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Re: Paracord popular for modern slings but..
Reply #9 - Jun 29th, 2021 at 5:50am
 
A lot of focus on reducing air resistance we place on making our cords aerodynamic while neglecting the pouch, yet the pouch is one of biggest drags

Especially pouches that are  quite a bit longer than the projectile when the stone is seated, and pouches that are thick.

You can get rid of the pouch attachment knots because these also provide drag and figured out various knotless attachments

I think a fine split pouch provides the least drag, but since that is unfit for very thin slings in my opinion, a knotless netted pouch or a small a small soft leather cradle that isn't any larger than it need be.


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The Davidson Road KnollSlinger

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Re: Paracord popular for modern slings but..
Reply #10 - Jun 29th, 2021 at 5:36pm
 
joe_meadmaker wrote on Jun 28th, 2021 at 7:36pm:
The stop will need to be after release.  At release you'll want to be at max energy.

The only way I could see a sling storing potential energy is if you had an almost completely rigid retention cord (although it would be more of a stick or shaft) that would bend as you threw a projectile.  Then it could spring back into form as you came to the end of the throwing motion. 


I was thinking that an elastic springy sling cord could apply acceleration to the bullet even after you reach nearly the end of your effective acceleration due to your hand; at that point you could freeze your body yet the elastic would continue applying force and acceleration.
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Re: Paracord popular for modern slings but..
Reply #11 - Jun 29th, 2021 at 8:16pm
 
I don't think.  The stretch of the cord (and therefore the force it creates) are going to be inline with your hand and the pouch.  But the stones path when it is released will be at a 90° angle to this.  So the stretching of the cord is only really going to give you a larger radius of rotation, and an effectively longer sling.

This isn't an image of a sling but it will do.  The circle represents the sling's rotation.  The radius represents the sling and direction of any stretch that it has.  The tangent vector represents the direction the stone will fly when it's released.  Any stretch or spring of the sling will not aid this directly because it's not in the same direction.  If your sling had an elastic quality and you stopped your motion, the sling would ultimately be trying to pull the stone back toward your hand because the centrifugal force would no longer be pulling it away.

...

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Re: Paracord popular for modern slings but..
Reply #12 - Jul 1st, 2021 at 7:43pm
 
Definitely want a sling with low or no stretch, stretch will reduce power and accuracy.
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The Davidson Road KnollSlinger

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Re: Paracord popular for modern slings but..
Reply #13 - Jul 5th, 2021 at 9:15pm
 
joe_meadmaker wrote on Jun 29th, 2021 at 8:16pm:
I don't think.  The stretch of the cord (and therefore the force it creates) are going to be inline with your hand and the pouch.  But the stones path when it is released will be at a 90° angle to this.  So the stretching of the cord is only really going to give you a larger radius of rotation, and an effectively longer sling.

This isn't an image of a sling but it will do.  The circle represents the sling's rotation.  The radius represents the sling and direction of any stretch that it has.  The tangent vector represents the direction the stone will fly when it's released.  Any stretch or spring of the sling will not aid this directly because it's not in the same direction.  If your sling had an elastic quality and you stopped your motion, the sling would ultimately be trying to pull the stone back toward your hand because the centrifugal force would no longer be pulling it away.

...



You can only ever apply force nearly 90 degrees to the motion. acceleration  vector points to your hand always.
i taught hs physics, while i was in hs.
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string there be a sling

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Re: Paracord popular for modern slings but..
Reply #14 - May 27th, 2022 at 10:04am
 
Wow a lot of long term members came out for this one
When I was experimenting with this.
I came to a conclusion that the springy cords did add some distance
But I could never gain any control
So my favorite has become Spectra type cords for the stiffness and accuracy and control
It nice to get a good distance and actually be able to hit something lol
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