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Question: How do you release



« Created by: AncientCraftwork on: Jun 15th, 2021 at 12:02pm »

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How do you release (Read 1864 times)
Morphy
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Re: How do you release
Reply #15 - Jun 16th, 2021 at 4:57pm
 
It also depends on the path from the pull to the release and what happens during that path. But ya, definitely its a concept that been around awhile. I am having a hard time visualizing how side spin is more accurate?
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Hirtius
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Re: How do you release
Reply #16 - Jun 16th, 2021 at 10:12pm
 
Don’t ask me how it’s more accurate, I just do. However, one thing I’ve noticed is that my previous release sometimes puts a downward spin, especially on projectiles that aren’t round. The main thing is that my previous release usually favored the right when missing, and did so more often. To compensate, I would be facing the target with the side of my body instead of my front. I don’t know if it’s my timing or the release. I could still hit stuff, there just felt like more error.  To get back to the question, I don’t really know if side spin is more accurate. The way I imagined it was that release working out better with contact between the rock and the sling. That’s the way I thought about it, but I again don’t know. Slings are simple, in that they’re simply confusing.
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IronGoober
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Re: How do you release
Reply #17 - Jun 17th, 2021 at 12:00am
 
Hirtius wrote on Jun 16th, 2021 at 10:12pm:
The way I imagined it was that release working out better with contact between the rock and the sling.


240 fps video of you slinging is a great way to get insight into what you are doing. If you have a phone that is newer than 2016, you should have the capability to collect a 240 fps video.
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John R.
 
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TOMBELAINE
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Re: How do you release
Reply #18 - Jun 17th, 2021 at 3:00am
 
Hirtius wrote on Jun 16th, 2021 at 10:12pm:
Slings are simple, in that they’re simply confusing.

Ok with you.
Our modern brains have technicalized the sling. Hence my comment about Kilisi and J in another post. Both approaches are interesting. But we must not drawn in falses certainties. In fact, the research is exciting.
Just my idea.
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AncientCraftwork
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Re: How do you release
Reply #19 - Jun 17th, 2021 at 5:42am
 
I don't like the palm / wrist explanation as I've always had trouble imagining about it. I prefer the cord explanation myself because the same thing can be achieved by different palm /wrist positions, it's the cord position in the end that matters. Cords inline or cords side to side.

I have a different palm and wrist position when I want to sling inline when I use the loop on the outside of my hand, than if I have the loop on the inside of my hand. But both ways cause the same spin. So that's why I don't think the palm/wrist explanation is good.
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AncientCraftwork
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Re: How do you release
Reply #20 - Jun 17th, 2021 at 5:49am
 
Morphy wrote on Jun 16th, 2021 at 4:57pm:
It also depends on the path from the pull to the release and what happens during that path. But ya, definitely its a concept that been around awhile. I am having a hard time visualizing how side spin is more accurate?


You have to think about how a sling releases internally and not just external ballistics. Of course the external ballistics of a rifled glande is straighter than a curving ball. But there is also the internal ballistics of how a sling releases. I think that the internal ballistics of a sphere slung inline with an inline spin can feel more intuitive based on the internal ballistics, as the projectiles rolls out inline with the release cord and pushes it aside, unlike a spiral trajectory which is released with a different angle causing
the glande to shoot out not exactly inline, but more out of the side, with a spiral spin.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love to spiral spin. It's wicked to see biconicals fly. I jsut think that the inline spin with spheres might also have interesting characteristics for  shorter distance target throwing.
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TOMBELAINE
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Re: How do you release
Reply #21 - Jun 17th, 2021 at 6:17am
 
AncientCraftwork wrote on Jun 17th, 2021 at 5:49am:
Of course the external ballistics of a rifled glande is straighter than a curving ball


What is "curving ball" ?
I'm never seen a rock thrown with force do loopings. I'm afraid  we've gotten used to the idea that pebbles take curved trajectories of themselves. They rotate around their center of gravity. Yes but their center of gravity flies straight.
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Morphy
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Re: How do you release
Reply #22 - Jun 17th, 2021 at 7:26am
 
AncientCraftwork wrote on Jun 17th, 2021 at 5:49am:
Morphy wrote on Jun 16th, 2021 at 4:57pm:
It also depends on the path from the pull to the release and what happens during that path. But ya, definitely its a concept that been around awhile. I am having a hard time visualizing how side spin is more accurate?


I think that the internal ballistics of a sphere slung inline with an inline spin can feel more intuitive based on the internal ballistics, as the projectiles rolls out inline with the release cord and pushes it aside.


Can you define what "feels more intuitive" means in a few sentences? What benefit does this feeling give to your slinging? Is the greater intuitive feeling enough to offset having to aim off to the side of your target to get the projectile to drift into it now that it has non rifling spin? Does it offset the sharp decrease in power over the first 50 meters compared to rifled spin?

These questions are sort of why I think I could be misinterpreting what you are saying. I cant imagine side, forward or back spin being anything but suboptimal for distance or accuracy.
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TOMBELAINE
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Re: How do you release
Reply #23 - Jun 17th, 2021 at 8:42am
 
TOMBELAINE wrote on Jun 17th, 2021 at 6:17am:
I'm never seen a rock thrown with force do loopings. I'm afraid  we've gotten used to the idea that pebbles take curved trajectories of themselves. They rotate around their center of gravity. Yes but their center of gravity flies straight.


I continue my explanation.
In all cases, there is a spin. More or less.
The less aerodynamic the pebble will be, sooner it will fall. But it flies straight.
The more aerodynamic the pebble will be, stronger will be the Magnus effect. It will fly straight at the beginning, then its flight will bend. And it will fly further.
I could be wrong but that's I saw in my shots.

Before discussing, have we understood the same thing ?

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IronGoober
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Re: How do you release
Reply #24 - Jun 17th, 2021 at 11:02am
 
AncientCraftwork wrote on Jun 17th, 2021 at 5:42am:
it's the cord position in the end that matters.


J, yes that is correct.  Of course the wrist position will not FULLY dictate how the cords, But the wrist is a big factor in controlling cord position. There are other factors that come into play, such as your windup, pull through, the sling itself, the weight of the ammo, and how much tension there are on the cords.  But paying attention to your wrist will allow you to better control your release to a large degree.

One thing that I haven't heard you talk about in your "oscillations" theory (which I think you should used different terminology, I think oscillations is confusing), is that the twisting of the cords that can cause an "inline" release can be caused by insufficient tension on the cords. With lots of tension, due to heavy ammo, or hard acceleration, any twist will be rapidly removed because the sling will quickly reach an equilibrium between both cords. It is an important consideration when you talk about spinning the sling vs a single rotation. The spinning puts little tension on the cords, so they have a tendency to get twisted. But a single smooth rotation rapidly accelerates the sling with lots of tension and the cords remain aligned through the entire power stroke. The difference with spinning is that the cords can be twisted before the power stroke and not have enough time to untwist before release.


TOMBELAINE wrote on Jun 17th, 2021 at 8:42am:
Before discussing, have we understood the same thing ?


@Tombelaine  Yes, I think we are all discussing the same thing. The magnus effect will come into play when a pebble is released "inline" or if it is spinning like a top (the toy), and it will curve. A perfect rifled release will not affect the trajectory and cause it to curve, it will follow a path due to gravity and aerodynamic drag.
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John R.
 
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Re: How do you release
Reply #25 - Jun 18th, 2021 at 2:21pm
 
I hope that the beginners have been able to better undersdand the interest of the question asked by J, with these explanations.

IronGoober wrote on Jun 17th, 2021 at 11:02am:
The magnus effect will come into play when a pebble is released "inline" or if it is spinning like a top (the toy), and it will curve. A perfect rifled release will not affect the trajectory and cause it to curve, it will follow a path due to gravity and aerodynamic drag.

I agree with you.

For "bad" pebbles, control of spin is not very important. Their flies are straight. The approach is different.
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