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6 pages of sling projectile photographs (Read 1423 times)
AncientCraftwork
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6 pages of sling projectile photographs
Jun 15th, 2021 at 7:43am
 
Click on ''related objects''
https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/term/x9129
It also has the dimensions of the projectiles.
So I learned that the Lachisch slingstones weight between 250 and 350 grams
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TOMBELAINE
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Re: 6 pages of sling projectile photographs
Reply #1 - Jun 15th, 2021 at 11:17am
 
I started looking at.
Smiley
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Sarosh
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Re: 6 pages of sling projectile photographs
Reply #2 - Jun 15th, 2021 at 5:17pm
 
I wonder how fast was the transition from sphere to biconicals for made ammo. I knew what is an aerodynamic shape before I started slinging but I saw the difference later and I knew what to look for...
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Morphy
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Re: 6 pages of sling projectile photographs
Reply #3 - Jun 15th, 2021 at 7:17pm
 
Sarosh wrote on Jun 15th, 2021 at 5:17pm:
I wonder how fast was the transition from sphere to biconicals for made ammo. I knew what is an aerodynamic shape before I started slinging but I saw the difference later and I knew what to look for...


This is a question that could apply to a lot of primitive tech. Makes me wonder as well.
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Hirtius
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Re: 6 pages of sling projectile photographs
Reply #4 - Jun 15th, 2021 at 8:40pm
 
Sarosh wrote on Jun 15th, 2021 at 5:17pm:
I wonder how fast was the transition from sphere to biconicals for made ammo. I knew what is an aerodynamic shape before I started slinging but I saw the difference later and I knew what to look for...


Probably not quickly in the total history of the sling, but it might be older than you think. There are biconical projectiles from the West Coast of the US and northern Venezuela going back thousands and thousands of years. Maybe Iím misremembering, but biconicals might have been used in those regions of the Americas as early as 8000 BCE. Iíll have to double check.

Edit: According to Gigi and Robert York, 8,000 YA (6000 BCE) is a conservative element for some suspected North American biconical sling stones. The other end is 13,000 YA (11,000 BCE), only a few thousand years after the populating of the continents. The sites where the evidence comes from are the Mount Hebron and Borax Lake sites. The Yorkís also state that these artifacts started to disappear around 1000 BCE to 500 BCE, though the Gunther island site has biconicals and dates back to only around 900 CE. The best known site here where biconicals were found was the Lovelock cave site, which we already know dates back to 1200 BCE.
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« Last Edit: Jun 15th, 2021 at 11:27pm by Hirtius »  
 
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: 6 pages of sling projectile photographs
Reply #5 - Jun 16th, 2021 at 8:08am
 
it just starts with people finding and throwing different shaped rocks.
The ones that fly best are then targeted and when they run out people decide to make their own.

The interesting thing is that there are quite  a few asymmetrical pear shaped stones there.
I'll have to try that at some point.
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AncientCraftwork
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Re: 6 pages of sling projectile photographs
Reply #6 - Jun 16th, 2021 at 8:25am
 
I don't think the sphere is made obsolete by the biconical. Only for distance and penetration the biconical is better. But with the sphere I can sling inline and my accuracy at short distances is greatly improved, it feels amazing. I believe the cortalloid sling with the special grooved projectile is also slung inline, but I am not sure.

Slinging a biconical inline doesn't have much use, it flies point upward instead of point forward. So the ancients did very well knew the effects of pouch orientation. While the external ballistics of a rifled biconical far supersede that of a sphere, I do think that the internal ballistics of sphere supersedes that of a biconical.
And simply a spiral release feels harder for me to gauge right than an inline release, because the knot/release cord is released above the line of the projectile (or to its side)
while with an inline release the knot/cord is released infront/towards the target. It's hard to explain but the latter feels much more intuitive for me for some reason.
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Morphy
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Re: 6 pages of sling projectile photographs
Reply #7 - Jun 16th, 2021 at 10:52am
 
Wouldnt "inline" cords give you undesirable spin?
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AncientCraftwork
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Re: 6 pages of sling projectile photographs
Reply #8 - Jun 16th, 2021 at 11:42am
 
If you sling elongated stones, I think you are better off releasing with more of a spiral spin. Although I do notice many Balaeric slingers still sling somewhere inbetween spiral and inline even with elongates stones. I take note of their release point and its often somewhere between inline and spiral. I see many of their oval stones don't fly perfectly straight but not vertical either, but somewhere in between, with a somewhat upwards yaw angle on the stone. I think of all slinger videos, Sarosh would be a good example of a spiral slinger.

But the benefit of releasing inline is that that's the way a sling wants to be released by its very nature. Just hold a sling with a projectile loaded and see how it rolls out. It wants to roll out alongside the release cord. That's inline. But when you release perfectly inline, it's best to use spherical ammo. Then it releases like a round stone from a sling on a trebuchet or conventional staff sling, No spiral spin, but a spin inline with the direction of the throw. Thus a sidespin with sidearm, backspin with vertical overarm and topspin with underarm. The release cord simply gets pushed out of the way and bends backwards.

The benefit of this style of inline of release is that you can release with the release cord in front, towards the target, instead of releasing with the release at side of the retention cord. It's feels more intuitive in my opinion with the ballistic curve more inline. like slinging a bola, but with spin that is inline with the direction of the throw.

A spiral spin however is more like shooting off the propeller instead of shooting in line with the propellor. The spin is no longer inline but now a spiral. It's great for longer distances and straigth trajectories but the release is harder to gauge right, but that's what I think.

Overall, since most stones are not perfectly round, it definitely makes sense to use more of a spiral spin on those. But my accuracy with ball projectiles feels much better inline. That is up to 50 meters or so. Then I think it's better to throw with a straight flying spiral spin compared to a curving sidespin or curving diagonal backspin.
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AncientCraftwork
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Re: 6 pages of sling projectile photographs
Reply #9 - Jun 16th, 2021 at 11:57am
 
Here's an example of what I see as a mostly inline release
https://youtu.be/ISUXOm4RRl0
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Morphy
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Re: 6 pages of sling projectile photographs
Reply #10 - Jun 16th, 2021 at 3:40pm
 
I understand the idea but seems like you are going to get some other spin than a spiral which in turn is worse for accuracy and power isnt it? If not could you explain how? Every spin Ive put on a projectile other than spiral follows according to the path the spin dictates. Ive used spin to drift projectiles into a target but that was always a trick shot thing and never easier than a straight throw. Just curious. Thanks.
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