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International News? (Read 585 times)
Morphy
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International News?
May 1st, 2021 at 6:01pm
 
Anyone have a an update on the international? Its going on right?
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Jaegoor
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Re: International News?
Reply #1 - May 2nd, 2021 at 2:40am
 
According to my information, a meeting is planned in Ibiza in October.  But it will not take place under the Federacio Balear.  Pep is no longer president.  He was fired.  This is not good news for our sport.  The existence of the federatio is in danger.  I personally will not be there this year on ibiza.  I think it's too early because of the corona.  In addition, I'm not a friend of what pep is doing there.  I will not support that.
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Morphy
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Re: International News?
Reply #2 - May 2nd, 2021 at 6:42am
 
Wow... this is not good news...

Why does this endanger the Federacio Balear? Is it a dying sport there?
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Re: International News?
Reply #3 - May 2nd, 2021 at 11:49am
 
it's always been a dying sport.

And to be honest, like all organisations - there's always been internal politics.

It could just be me, but I've always got the impression that the mallorcams resented the fact that pep - an ibizan, was in charge.
Evem though we were always on their island the mallorcans have never been as friendly or welcoming as the menorcans and ibizans.

Not all of them - or even probably most of them - but it's is noticeable.

Plus pep has been for change and if there's one thing slingers don't seem to take well to it's change.

Stones are illegal and should not be taken from the beaches and smashed.
Pep has been for modernising the sport - a large part of what the international is about.
The mallorcans definitelty don't approve.

Hell it's even worse than that
When the first international was held in soller - it pissed off the other malolorcan clubs  and no part of the international was ever held in soller again.
Despite it being a fairly quick train ride from palma and a cracking little seaside town.

few years ago david, jaegoor and I went on our own.
Joan Oliver Ramon - really made us welcome.   

Pep ruffled a lot of feathers - most of which NEED ruffling.
He's pro conservation and has been a lot more interested in clay ammo than any of the mallorcans.
Pep uis also very political and always manages to get hold of the local dignitaries.
However he's against catalonia beoing a seperate entity from the rest of spain.
And that does not go down well.

Marcos and the ibithans and luis and the menorcans have always seemed a lot more open to the sport progressing rather than stagnating.

These are just my personal impressions derived over the last 8 years.
I could be totally wrong Smiley

Not sure what jaegoors objections are - in my opinion Pep has been nothing but good for the sport.

If I can afford it I'll be in ibiza.
Covid's not much of an issue in the uk any more - we get free tests and I'll have my second jab at the end of may. I mean I'm immune anyway - but I'll be jabbed as well.
Got some good friends in ibiza Smiley

So for me, it's just money - if I've got it in october I'll go. If I haven't I wont Smiley

But, yeah the sport of slinging on the balearic islands - while in no danger of dying out completely - is not looking that healthy.

My impressions at the international are a lot of the reason I don't agree with rules governing throwing style or sling types or materials.
They just don't work.

When you realise that the balearic islands are one of the main destinations for europaen tourists from other countries, and that you will never meet a tourist who has ever heatd of slinging as a sport - tells you all you need to know about how the islands promote slinging to the general public.

Roman and the chamorros have the right approach.

Christian sams is also doing a lot for slinging in austria.
I'm pretty sure the vote for male sportsman he was in this year - is the first and ONLY time a slinger has been recognised - in any country - as equivalent to other sportsmen.

he also does a helluva lot promoting slinging. Goes into schools and does demos etc

We NEED to Widen the sport and include a lot of different sling based events and activities.
Guam is the only country in the world where you can currently play slinggolf - without pretending you're doing something else whistle

You want to promote slinging - that's how you do it.
You make it accessible.
You don't make it about tradition and culture - if people are interested in that aspect, then they'll get into it anyway. But concentrating solely on that aspect, just alienates the other people who want to sling just because they want to sling.

And you use safe and repeatable ammo.   

You lot just thought it was candyfloss and balloons didn't you whistle
'fraid not it's as prone to the negative aspects of humanity, politics and ego, as the rest of our soceity.

Which is one reason I do my damndest to not have any of that crap around here Smiley
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Morphy
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Re: International News?
Reply #4 - May 2nd, 2021 at 12:20pm
 
I really think the foam rubber baseballs are a good example of both safe and effective ammo. Of course getting hit by one would not be pleasant but then again much less painful than a normal baseball and at 4oz and change they fly wonderfully at least out to 20-30 meters. Perfect ammo for people to move up to after tennis balls and you get the full feel of what a sling is meant to feel like.

I agree we cannot over restrict things in slinging. That would be a horrible idea especially starting out.

Thats one reason Im such a big proponent of Aussies Difficulty Index. It gives everyone a nice even playing field regardless of their restrictions in throwing range or target type.

That sucks that there is so much politics to wade through. There IS a way to keep tradition alive without needlessly restricting people and as for the stone restriction, I absolutely agree. I cringe seeing people smash perfect stones when there are so many good substitutes. Clay should be fine but if not, rusty balls, concrete, dense foam rubber etc.

We in Texas need to set a target competition up. Theres so many of us.
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Re: International News?
Reply #5 - May 2nd, 2021 at 7:00pm
 
Then do jt.
Stop talking about it, find a field, build a target and just do it.

I've built targets and run or helped run events in three countries - including the United States.

The only slinging event in the states had the ranges and marquee built by an Englishman on holiday.

That is not how things should be.

You have the largest collection of historical events anywhere in the world.
Nobody else has renfaires, we have history instead.
Use the faires. Set up a target, have a booth with target.
Sell tennis ball slings.

Just DO something.

All of you. Don't wait for someone else to do it, do it yourselves.

Polemic over Smiley
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Morphy
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Re: International News?
Reply #6 - May 2nd, 2021 at 7:12pm
 
You hear that NOOC!! What are you waiting for!!  Cheesy
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Re: International News?
Reply #7 - May 2nd, 2021 at 10:18pm
 
I'm glad you started this thread Morphy.  Quite interesting...
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Re: International News?
Reply #8 - May 2nd, 2021 at 11:00pm
 
This is pretty enlightening. I had no idea the Islands were rife with politics. Maybe it's good to stay informed but uninvolved. I plan to go someday in the future.
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Jaegoor
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Re: International News?
Reply #9 - May 3rd, 2021 at 2:35am
 
I can ask to remain indifferent, understand.  That's my wish too.  I certainly don't know all the connections for a long time.  But I know it's not about disputes between Mallorca and Ibiza.  Pep's resignation came from a higher position.  The club system works differently than in Germany.  The issue of renewal is not really a reason either.  Most of them work a lot and have little time to make bullets from clay.  Stones are also much preferred to be shot.  That's why they agreed on tennis balls.  They always have the same weight.  And you shouldn't believe it, very well-known slingers tennis balls were too easy.  They injected water or otherwise cheated.  And then international participants came.  Sir suddenly brought their own rules with them.  I don't know any sport where that is possible.  It is also not useful and has nothing to do with renewal.
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Re: International News?
Reply #10 - May 3rd, 2021 at 2:52pm
 
Geez, I didn't know that the politics over making rocks go fast could be so complicated. From an outside perspective, it seems a little silly.

---

CA, it's probably hard to get slingers together in most places, but in the U.S. it's especially hard. We're quite geographically dispersed. The slingers on slinging.org that I know the location of live a couple days drive away. However, a bigger problem that plays into this is that we don't really have the numbers (that I know of) that would be able organize any event. And from my experience, renfaires aren't want you think. I personally hate renaissance fairs. There's almost nothing historical about them, and they aren't meant to be. They're largely for people into stuff like LARPing and DnD. They aren't there to learn, especially about a weapon like the sling. They're there for entertainment. But even if someone did want to spread slinging through renaissance fairs, you gotta have money and get approval from the fair. I'm young and broke, and the fair would probably either not approve or charge a high amount to set up anything. And again, no one would be interested.

I honestly don't know how we can grow the sport. It's such a hard skill to learn that it any given person you reach out to will have an extremely low chance of taking it up, and it doesn't have the prestige of other sports or weapons. I feel it would be easier, but still extremely difficult, to reach out to people that are more likely take up the skill. I feel that people interested in primitive hunting/technology and people interested in history are groups that are more likely to commit to it. Don't ask me how we would reach out, because I don't know.

Maybe we should try planning some regional events in the U.S. and see what kind of turnout we can get. Probably not too high.

---

Maybe slingers should invent a new type of ammo for official sports use. Rusty balls are one idea, but how about a rubber ball around a metal core, with a proportion that makes it roughly as dense as stone (perhaps around 2.5 g/cm^3)? That would require special equipment and a lot of money, but it could make the sport more "official". I know how unreasonable it is, but I feel it needed to be thrown out there.

I feel that perhaps some of the reasons we struggle as a sport is because we don't always treat it as officially. CA is right, in the states we don't really organize as much (as far as I'm aware). Hunting is another issue. I'm not trying to start a controversy, I'm trying to point out an issue. At least in the U.S., the sling is not really recognized as a weapon in any state. If you wanted, you might be able to argue for status as a "slingshot" (legal in some states) or it might operate under laws that allow for hunting of some species by any means. Unfortunately, we don't have the numbers to even bring awareness to the legal status of slings.

As things look now, I'm not confident that we'll ever be able to make major improvements. I feel we might be relegated to just being a sport that a select few people stumble upon.
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Re: International News?
Reply #11 - May 3rd, 2021 at 5:49pm
 
One of the main problems is, for many, slinging is just for fun.  Not a real sport.  This is also the case in Spain.  It took ten years to found a group within a sports club in Germany.  So much bureaucracy.  Is it shoot or throw.  Since the word Balearic was derived from throwing, Balearic Slinging is not an official shooting sport.  Luckily.  Otherwise it would be much more difficult in Germany.  It is now recognized as a sport.  Training with the sling is not the only thing in my group that we train.  We also really enjoy playing pelota a mano.  It's perfect workout for the sling.
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Re: International News?
Reply #12 - May 4th, 2021 at 7:42am
 
It is disheartening that in a country with such a long history of slinging, that's almost the 2nd thing people know about slinging (after David and Goliath), it's still this difficult to get slinging treated seriously and promoted. I'm hoping to be there in October but there are a lot of ducks I am currently herding into a row for that to happen.
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Re: International News?
Reply #13 - May 4th, 2021 at 8:20am
 
https://worldarchery.sport/rulebook/article/793

11.1.RECURVE DIVISION

For the Recurve Division, the following items are permitted:
11.1.1.

A bow of any type provided it complies with the common meaning of the word "bow" as used in target archery, that is, an instrument consisting of a handle/riser and grip, (no shoot-through type) and two flexible limbs each ending in a tip with a string nock. The bow is braced for use by a single string attached directly between the two string nocks, and in operation is held in one hand by its handle (grip) while the fingers of the other hand draw and release the string.


Arrows

Arrows of any type may be used provided they comply with the common meaning of the word "arrow" as used in target archery, and do not cause undue damage to target faces or butts.

11.1.7.1.

An arrow consists of a shaft with a tip (point), nock, fletching and, if desired, cresting. The maximum diameter of arrow shafts shall not exceed 9.3mm (arrow wraps shall not be considered as part of this limitation but may not extend further than 22cm toward the arrow point when measured from the nock groove where the bowstring sits to the end of the wrap). The tips/points of the arrows may not exceed 9.4mm in diameter. All arrows of every athlete shall be marked with the athlete's name or initials on the shaft. All arrows used in any end shall be identical in appearance and shall carry the same pattern and colour(s) of fletching, nocks and cresting, if any. Tracer nocks (electrically/electronically lighted nocks) are not allowed.


Thought we already figured this one out but since it was brought up here’s the closest shooting/target sport we have in an international forum- Olympic Archery. The allowed equipment is very broad. People self-limit to certain set ups because they want to win, not because the rules say they have to.

One thing I do agree with FITA on, aside from the fact that they allow a wide variety of ammo and bow types, is that ammo “size” must be limited within a certain range since large ammo gives a considerable advantage to accuracy over smaller diameter ammo. Even more so with the sling since some people use large potato size ammo while others use ammo closer in size to a golf ball. Without some limit people could sling huge ammo for higher scores while having much less skill.

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Re: International News?
Reply #14 - May 4th, 2021 at 11:14am
 
Okay - slinging events 101 Smiley

It is NOT about getting people who already sling together - forget that.
If one or two people turn up who can sling - great, give them a group of newbies to teach and thank your deities they sent help.

What a local slinging event is really about is getting the message out there.

Recruiting new slingers, tellign your local paper - particularly in the states local papers will cover ANYTHING !
Particularly if the local teams in the normal sports are sucking at everything.
Distraction sport - take what you can get !

And - if anyone turns up, and tries slinging and likes it - you now have a local slinging companion - win win  Smiley
And they'll tell their friends.

This is why events like survival camps and renfaires are such great places to set up a slinging target and booth.
The people there are alraedy interested in primitive ballistics.

So STOP thinkiing: 'I need people who can already sling to come'.
And START thinking: ' how many new people can I infect with this slinging bug'.

And jaegoor's mention of internal politics in his slinging club - says it all really.

So:
1) use tennis balls - not stupidly difficult things to make that are also lethal.  People understand tennis balls and don't freak out when you sling them.
2) Any target will do - but make it big enough for newbies to hit.
3) start at 10 metres - it's more than enough for beginners.

4) what are you still doing staring at your computer/tablet/phone/laptop ?  Go find somewhere to hold a sling event Smiley

Belong to an archery club ? Take some slings and tennis balls along and see who wants to give it a go. Anyone who hits a target - keeps the sling. ta da a new slinger !

Same with rifle clubs, atlatl clubs, ANY re-enacment group.
Scout groups are also good. 

You want people to sling with ?
Well go find them and convert them Smiley


GO - NOW - DO - IT !
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