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Sling Style Classification Tool (Read 1416 times)
Kick
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Sling Style Classification Tool
Apr 25th, 2021 at 5:04am
 
Talking about slinging styles is difficult. We on the forum have our own language and shortcuts when describing slinging styles, but a lot of these names aren't historically accurate (Apache style has basically nothing to do with the Apache Native Americans, there's no evidence really that the Byzantines used Byzantine style) or are too broad to really describe what someone is doing precisely.

One major problem is that the names often describe the wind-up but don't necessarily indicate angle of release which is arguably much more important to replicating a throw for accuracy. A good example of this is comparing how I usually do Fig. 8 and how C_A does Fig. 8. We do essentially the same wind up but my angle of release is close to vertical where I've video of C_A releasing almost horizontally. Despite this really major difference, we call both of them Fig. 8.

So, I've developed a way of describing a sling throw that covers all of these aspects to more fully describe how a style works without having to write out paragraphs of text full of vague terminology.

Why is this useful? Well, I'm not for a second suggesting we stop using the names we already have; they're very ingrained anyway. What this tool is really for is for more in depth discussions where being precise about movements might matter more. It's a much more a scientific approach which isn't necessary for all discussions but has it's place.

SerKraus kind of predicted this beforehand (that boy's psychic I swear  Shocked ), but this needs to be thought of as similiar to the Latin names used to classify living things. We don't go around calling cats Felis catus, we just call them cats. Nevertheless, having that system in place can help to tease out differences and properly understand those differences and what they mean. All that being said, here it is:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KT2nPmKV11DjXamhuDphPw4IPJx65Hfh/view


Now, please, good people of the forum, tear this apart. Find every problem with it. Torture this tool until it falls apart. I really want this to be a useful, clear tool that can be used so it needs to be much closer to bomb proof than it currently is. A really great thing to see would be some video of people's styles with the interpretation using the tool. We can get right into comparing people's styles. Enjoy!
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You are a great guy Kick but also slightly scary at times. - Morphy
"Nothing matters, but itís perhaps more comfortable to keep calm and not interfere with other people." - H.P. Lovecraft, in a letter to Frank Belknap Long, 7 October, 1923
 
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Kick
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Re: Sling Style Classification Tool
Reply #1 - Apr 25th, 2021 at 5:05am
 
Also feel free to download and share it around. I don't care about any attribution or "rights" or whatever. I want it used.
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You are a great guy Kick but also slightly scary at times. - Morphy
"Nothing matters, but itís perhaps more comfortable to keep calm and not interfere with other people." - H.P. Lovecraft, in a letter to Frank Belknap Long, 7 October, 1923
 
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Hirtius
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Re: Sling Style Classification Tool
Reply #2 - Apr 25th, 2021 at 5:25am
 
Hirtius wrote on Apr 24th, 2021 at 11:50pm:
I do see the need for coming up with some different names for styles. I feel like overhand can be interpreted so many ways. You could probably use overhand to refer to something that is almost sidearm, as well as for something that is completely vertical. Same for underarm.

I feel like you could possibly boil it down to a number of release positions/angles. A quick classification system might be "True overhand" (vertical or almost vertical, like figure 8), "Angled overhand" (fairly angled, maybe like 45 degrees, see Practical Paracord's style), "Flat overhand" (No angle or only slight angle on release, like Jaegoor's), "Sidearm" (Like Luis' style), "Angled underarm" (Like angled overhand except underarm), and "True underarm" (No angle or only slight angle).

More specific movements that aren't tied to a single release like Byzantine or Greek might be put in front. Figure 8 is typically always more towards the "True overhand", so that might not need any further information.

Under a system like that, I would describe my style as "Byzantine flat overhand". It might be initially confusing and is not perfect, but boils most releases down to roughly six positions.


I'm copying my idea from the other thread, in case anyone is interested. Though probably not.

Sorry Kick, I think that's the problem with yours. I think that people will find mine to be too much, and yours is especially complex. It's easy enough to understand after a few minutes, the problem is that it's too complex for casual conversation. What this will do is it will create a bunch of new "styles" since every different variable could lead to a different category. I think for casual use we would still be falling back to the same vague names.

However, this is far from useless. What this is good for is very precise descriptions, and I could see this being of great use in an academic paper or if someone is trying to describe a weird style. If we ever had a book on slinging, this and its descriptions of the styles could be quite useful. In other words, I think it's a great system for when video or pictures aren't available or sufficient.
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Kick
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Re: Sling Style Classification Tool
Reply #3 - Apr 25th, 2021 at 5:28am
 
Hirtius wrote on Apr 25th, 2021 at 5:25am:
What this is good for is very precise descriptions, and I could see this being of great use in an academic paper or if someone is trying to describe a weird style. If we ever had a book on slinging, this and its descriptions of the styles could be quite useful. In other words, I think it's a great system for when video or pictures aren't available or sufficient.

That's how I see it being used. It's not for just "everyday" use but for those very specific descriptions.
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You are a great guy Kick but also slightly scary at times. - Morphy
"Nothing matters, but itís perhaps more comfortable to keep calm and not interfere with other people." - H.P. Lovecraft, in a letter to Frank Belknap Long, 7 October, 1923
 
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Morphy
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Re: Sling Style Classification Tool
Reply #4 - Apr 25th, 2021 at 9:03pm
 
Ya it sort of needs to happen. We are moving past people just randomly riffing about slinging. The general understanding of the slinging community here has increased considerably at least since Iíve been here. What the community in general takes for granted was at one time sort of odd and not totally accepted. This is a good step in that direction.

Really well done Kick!
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joe_meadmaker
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Re: Sling Style Classification Tool
Reply #5 - Apr 25th, 2021 at 9:05pm
 
I think this is a good idea Kick.  It looks like a nice start!  When I have some time, I'll try to classify my own throw using this system and then post the results.  I'd like to see if you come up with the same thing, so I'll find a specific throw in a video I already have posted to use as a test subject.
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Re: Sling Style Classification Tool
Reply #6 - Apr 26th, 2021 at 3:11am
 
That would be great. It needs to be consistent between people so that's a good idea.
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You are a great guy Kick but also slightly scary at times. - Morphy
"Nothing matters, but itís perhaps more comfortable to keep calm and not interfere with other people." - H.P. Lovecraft, in a letter to Frank Belknap Long, 7 October, 1923
 
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SerKraus
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Re: Sling Style Classification Tool
Reply #7 - Apr 26th, 2021 at 11:34am
 
This is way more thorough and complex than I had originally imagined! I was thinking something like helicopter-overarm or helicopter-sidearm. Binomial nomenclatures and all... This is better though.
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No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical trainingÖwhat a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Socrates
 
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Hirtius
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Re: Sling Style Classification Tool
Reply #8 - Apr 26th, 2021 at 7:51pm
 
SerKraus wrote on Apr 26th, 2021 at 11:34am:
This is way more thorough and complex than I had originally imagined! I was thinking something like helicopter-overarm or helicopter-sidearm. Binomial nomenclatures and all... This is better though.


For what it's worth, my system has binomial/trinomial names. Trinomial names are needed to describe the wind up and release, but the release angles and positions are described with binomials.

The current naming conventions largely are defined by description of the windup that is vague on the release. It has the best understood names, though.
Kick's convention is very specific on both the windup and release, with the donwnside of the names being potentially complicated.
My system is specific on the release position and some of the angle, though vague on the windup if it is not trinomial.

Unfortunately, slinging is so complex and individual that simple names will leave out a lot of information.
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Slyngorm
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Re: Sling Style Classification Tool
Reply #9 - Apr 27th, 2021 at 5:18pm
 
Now THIS is slinging!  Cheesy Shocked Tongue
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: Sling Style Classification Tool
Reply #10 - Apr 29th, 2021 at 12:19pm
 
as far as fig 8 release goes - I vary it according to circumstances.

Pretty all the throws and releses at hodd hill are vertical.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVJHS8yIWT0
There is a video where I'm halfway dwon a steep slope and that is more side on - cos I had  a hill behind me Smiley

Tha slo mo of me at fauld crater is more horizontal as i had bushes behind me Smiley
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAQannIFnMI
Actually more vertical than i thought. Almost a byzantine finish to a fig 8 windup - we'll gloss over that one lol

So any pedantic classification system would need to include windup and release.

As there are only three release types - that should make it pretty easy to design a look up table.

making it an interactive html file that automatically took you to a short video clip of the style in question - slightly harder lol

Although I could probably do that with my web creation software.

I'm also - probably - from what I've seen. The only slinger who can demonstrate every single style of throw and release point.

Most members seem to fixate on one particular style (sidearm balearic being currently in vogue) and use nothing else. 
I tend to see a different style and master it. I regularly use greek, byzantine, fig 8 variants, sidearm and helicopter - mainly when demeonstarting to newbies how NOT to start lol. As well as underhand - one of the best for tennis balls for dogs.
And also zero shoulder and elbow impact.

But yeah - it's doable.
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One †- works for me Smiley
 
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: Sling Style Classification Tool
Reply #11 - May 2nd, 2021 at 12:15pm
 
I've actually been doing a lot more slinging than usual this past week.

So i've been trying out different windups to releases.

Most are doable - some don't work at all and some just feel downright weird lol

An overhead helicopter windup to an underarm release is doable, but feels really weird.
And for some reason pulls to the left.

But I reckon mosrt windups can be used with most  release points.

It's even possible to do a fig8 windup to an underarm release.
Take's a bit of thinking about, but it can be done Smiley
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One †- works for me Smiley
 
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joe_meadmaker
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Re: Sling Style Classification Tool
Reply #12 - May 2nd, 2021 at 9:49pm
 
Curious Aardvark wrote on May 2nd, 2021 at 12:15pm:
It's even possible to do a fig8 windup to an underarm release.
Take's a bit of thinking about, but it can be done

I cannot picture that.† A description or video possible?
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