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Clay Glandes, are they worth it? (Read 1753 times)
Morphy
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Clay Glandes, are they worth it?
Apr 4th, 2021 at 10:47am
 
So I have a very large fire pit in my backyard. Being something of a weirdo, the first thing I said when seeing it was “Now I can make lots and lots of clay projectiles!” My question is this.... Is it even worth it? 

My very little experience with clay is that it’s not nearly as dense as I would like. I know there is always the trick of soaking baked clay glandes in water but not sure if I want to do that.

I’ve also considered diluting something like epoxy in a solvent then soaking the clay in it. Theoretically it should seep into the pores and add more mass. Who really knows though? Perhaps many small dunks in extremely diluted solution as opposed to one long one would be best.

I would like biodegradable ammo that will not destroy someones lawn mower when running over it also. Also here in Texas we are long on clay and short on stones. So that’s an issue as well. What say you guys?

So I guess it all comes down to is it worth the trouble? If it’s super light I’m not interested. But is there some clay that is denser than others? Are there some clays that shrink when fired, thereby upping the density? All questions I’m hoping you all can answer.
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Jaegoor
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Re: Clay Glandes, are they worth it?
Reply #1 - Apr 4th, 2021 at 1:20pm
 
I also prefer it when it is difficult.  Concrete ammunition is pointless.  I've tried everything possible.  You break.  That's not going to be the effort.  I only use clay when I shoot historically or demonstrate something.  But I really don't like it.  Stones are awesome
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walter
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Re: Clay Glandes, are they worth it?
Reply #2 - Apr 5th, 2021 at 11:04pm
 
Best quote of the decade "...Stones are awesome." by Jaegoor. Love it!
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Mersa
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Re: Clay Glandes, are they worth it?
Reply #3 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 4:43am
 
I’ve only use air drying clay and it’s expensive for what you get. I lost or broke all the ones I made. Also as far as upping the weight, placing lead inside the glande just made it more likely to break on impact, so good for one throw.

If the clay is free it’s worth the effort, but if your paying for clay it’s not my cup of tea
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Kick
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Re: Clay Glandes, are they worth it?
Reply #4 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 5:06am
 
That's what has put me off using clay. Getting decent clay is kind of difficult around here and paying for Earth I'm going to be smashing against a metal pan is hard to justify when there are rocks around.
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You are a great guy Kick but also slightly scary at times. - Morphy
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Re: Clay Glandes, are they worth it?
Reply #5 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 8:09am
 
I've had them when I lived in an area with awful stones, they are very hard to recover if you belt them out though, and they will break reasonably fast.

If you have a proper soft backstop and soft target then it probably makes it worth it as you could reuse them many times and they will be more consistent than random stones. You could also make some rusty balls, the tradeoff I'd say is rusty balls can hit hard targets and not break but are also not biodegradeable so you don't particularly want to lose them.
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Re: Clay Glandes, are they worth it?
Reply #6 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 8:56am
 
Clay glandes are definitely worth it... if you're slinging for distance in a field. However, when it comes to target shooting, reinvest your time into rusty balls.  Cheesy
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No citizen has a right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training…what a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable. -Socrates
 
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Curious Aardvark
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Re: Clay Glandes, are they worth it?
Reply #7 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 9:11am
 
proper fire hardened clay is actually really tough.

Christian and uwe have been using them at the international for a few years.

Uwe throws harder than christian, but even so unless you hit the metal centre they usually survive just hitting the wood.

weight wise - what are you guys throwing ?
A 40mm ball of modelling clay weighs in at around 60-70gms - the perfect ammo both for diatance and target.

40mm is a great size (little smaller than a golf ball) great density and a 15kg bag of air dry modelling clay - which is stiffer and denser than potters clay - will yield up about 215.
And very fast to roll by hand.
That's what i threw at hodd hill - approx 2000plus  throws in 2 days, plenty of headshots and body shots at 50 metres. And of the 150 or so balls peter made I brought about 3/4 of them home.
The rest are forever a part of the hillforts banks.
But unless you hit a very hard target - they are extremely durable and can be re-used many timnes.
Particularly if you use bright orange outdoor paint Smiley

So just make a soft target.

Jaegoor is partially right. Cement is hard to work with - the key is getting the consistency right. Very fine sand with pva glue and shredded newspaper, is your friends there.
But it is much cheaper than modelling clay and doesn't shrink quite as much on setting.
While Not being lawnmower friendly they are heavier and tougher than clay. And not toxic to the environment.

Stones are - for my mind - too hard to get, too prone to breaking and definitely NOT friendly to either lawnmowers or dogs. They break into slivers of razor sharp shards.
There is probably nowhere in the uk you could use stones on a metal target without risking cutting a dogs or wild animals paws.

Obviously they don't care about any of this in the balearic islands and competitions are frequently held on land the public and their dogs have access to.

The whole macho thing is the real sticking point.

Historically - if you did not live on the coast - clay would have most likely been your ammo of choice.

But morphy try the 'modelling' cement.
You'll have to wing the pva and shredded newspaper content to sand and cement. But I can;t see any issues you should be able to get a really nice firm but malleable consistency. That would actually suit my moulds better than the clay i use - squashign that stuff into shape is a real workout.   
The main reason the moulds are so massively over-built Smiley
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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Morphy
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Re: Clay Glandes, are they worth it?
Reply #8 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 10:03am
 
Thanks for the answers all. To address certain points-

I’ve had good luck with concrete but I don’t sling at metal targets. At wood they last a long time if you make them correctly. It takes a little practice but good concrete ammo is quite durable. My problem with it is if you don’t have a backstop you lose them too fast and the process to make them gets old, really fast. While I’ve had great success with it I would also be happy to never make another one. Stones, I agree, are awesome. I just wish I lived in a good area for them.

I have tried sinking metal into formed glandes. In my case, bolts/lag screws into concrete. Definitely not a good idea. Lol. I agree Mersa.

My main issue with any ammo, for those who mentioned it is, it gets lost really, really easily. That is probably my biggest issue with slinging. No, that is for sure my biggest issue. It gets old.

Clay would be easier to form than concrete and if I could fire several hundred in the fire pit at once, the whole process shouldnt be such a big issue as with making concrete. Also I could finally put your clay rollers to good use CA. I’ll look into air dry stuff. If it’s as hard as vitrified clay and not too expensive that would be ideal. I guess it just depends on price at that point.
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Jaegoor
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Re: Clay Glandes, are they worth it?
Reply #9 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 10:04am
 
We tried different mixes with concrete.  I have a concrete construction specialist here.  Poly fibers are also useless.  You break too fast.  Gebrander Lehm holds a few hits on wood.  Then it's over too.  The workload for clay and concrete doesn't pay off for me.  For clay, I need the material and a furnace to burn it.  And for me, clay is too easy.  I shoot 180 to 200g.  I can shoot lighter weights too, but I don't like it.  The Balearic Islands are normally not allowed to shoot stones.  Why.  Collecting on islands is forbidden.  But it is tolerated.  I always bring my stones with me.  They are much more durable than anything else.  The stones of the Balearic Islands are limestone.  They break very quickly.  An alternative is actually rusty balls.  But I can't shoot them anywhere.  But maybe it can be improved.  There is rubber or latex.  This material is almost indestructible.  I have a nerf ball. This one is awesome.  But a little too big.  Unfortunately, I cannot process such materials.  So you need a manufacturer.
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Morphy
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Re: Clay Glandes, are they worth it?
Reply #10 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 10:12am
 
Jaegoor- I like Rusty Balls but not sure where I would use them at the moment. They are really good ammo though.

That is also my main problem with clay and concrete. Too much work for what you get. That is why a back stop is so important to me. You can use any ammo, no matter how time consuming to make, and not really worry about the cost/benefit problem.

I was thinking of making tape wrapped sock balls for the back yard yesterday. I’ll have to look into that. Not quite a nerf ball but close.
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Re: Clay Glandes, are they worth it?
Reply #11 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 11:58am
 
https://youtu.be/suwLfksonh4

Try that. It's a lot easier than tape.  It works very well.  I shot the egg on the head with a ball of this size.
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Re: Clay Glandes, are they worth it?
Reply #12 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 12:00pm
 
Tape wrapped socks are excelent ammo for indoor and backyard practice. You can really wrap them tight so they are quite dense, but still soft enough to not break anything. The release feels more like with stones and they fly better than tennis balls. Also they are not that bouncy so you can usually find them where they landed.

For me clay glandes are worth it, clay is much more abundant here than stones. It takes me much more time and effort to find a good shaped stone than to find some clay and make like 50 air dried glandes of much better shape than my best stones.
But for close distances like 10m, where it is easy to retrieve my ammo and aerodynamics and ammo consistancy make almost no difference, I just use my three old trusty stones I found about 5 months ago.
Oh how much did those three rocks go through with me! Cheesy Grin
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Re: Clay Glandes, are they worth it?
Reply #13 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 12:47pm
 
Curious Aardvark wrote on Apr 6th, 2021 at 9:11am:
Stones are - for my mind - too hard to get, too prone to breaking and definitely NOT friendly to either lawnmowers or dogs.

They still aren't lawnmower friendly but the rocks over here just don't break. Super tough granite.
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You are a great guy Kick but also slightly scary at times. - Morphy
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Morphy
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Re: Clay Glandes, are they worth it?
Reply #14 - Apr 6th, 2021 at 12:51pm
 
Jaegoor, yes exactly. Something like that. If I can find my balloons. They are boxed up somewhere.

Czech- “It takes me much more time and effort to find a good shaped stone than to find some clay and make like 50 air dried glandes of much better shape than my best stones. ”

Yes, and that right there is really it, isnt it? I’ve made countless number of handmade glandes. And it all comes down to cost/benefit. Or Accuracy/Durability/Time. If I have a nice big block of clay I could use CA’s rollers to produce A+ ammo very quickly. Make several hundred. Set them outside to dry and in a few days fire. A process that’s been done for thousands of years sans 3d printed rollers.
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