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Diagonal Angle Pitch is the Best? (Read 1229 times)
Morphy
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Re: Diagonal Angle Pitch is the Best?
Reply #15 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 9:17am
 
This is interesting. True I am a bit tired so maybe im not reading this correctly but J did you and Jaegoor just come to an agreement on the Greek style?

Thats a glowing recommendation if both of you have decided it has merit considering your differing opinions.
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Jaegoor
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Re: Diagonal Angle Pitch is the Best?
Reply #16 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 10:17am
 
One thing in common?  Rather not.  I just don't give a shit  Sling is very complex.  The so-called greek style is neither complex, nor healthy, nor aesthetic.  Where are all of the video about absolute accuracy?  I may not know her.  Take a stick.  He'll be much better if you don't want to or can't learn better.  My opinion is personal.  Should everyone do what he wants.  I do not care.  Don't you want to learn from me?  Here you go.  You don't have to.  Are you already a master?  Outstanding.  Show your skills.  Or do they just talk a lot?  As simple as that.
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Morphy
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Re: Diagonal Angle Pitch is the Best?
Reply #17 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 11:08am
 
Jaegoor wrote on Feb 28th, 2021 at 10:17am:
One thing in common? Rather not. I just don't give a shit Sling is very complex. The so-called greek style is neither complex, nor healthy, nor aesthetic. Where are all of the video about absolute accuracy? I may not know her. Take a stick. He'll be much better if you don't want to or can't learn better. My opinion is personal. Should everyone do what he wants. I do not care. Don't you want to learn from me? Here you go. You don't have to. Are you already a master? Outstanding. Show your skills. Or do they just talk a lot? As simple as that.


My apologies Jaegoor. Maybe I misread your side or juxtaposed it. J perhaps was more agreeing with you than you with him.

But you bring up an excellent point. If the Greek is accurate why are there no videos of accuracy? Is that the proof we need that its simply not viable, or perhaps not even a real throw. Its a good point and I cant think of a decent counter argument.

Here in America we have a saying "Put your money where your mouth is". In other words talk is just talk until you are willing to prove it. Seems like J in a round about way agrees with you.
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J
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Re: Diagonal Angle Pitch is the Best?
Reply #18 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 11:54am
 
Greek style is a very aesthetic style in my view. I have shot at a camera to see what it looks like from the receiving end.  The throw is so quick and swift. It's magical to see.

That it is not healthy or less so than other styles is nonsense. Any style is not healthy and can strain you if you overdo it.

Greek style simply removes the rotor. The rest of the throw is equal. You can adjust height of the shot with your left hand if you are a right handed slinger. You can throw very steep, or very sharp downwards. It's all possible.

@Morphy I agree with Jaegoor that for accuracy it is best to sling at a reduced power level. But that's something many slingers have independently discovered and not something he mentioned in this thread, but I brought up, to show that I don't disagree with him on everything.

I have never seen him mention the advantages of a Greek cast, neither the advantages it has on light sling cords with heavier stones and controlling the pouch orientation, etc, like I talked about recently. Either he doesn't understand it or he does and shoves it away as insignificant, that's also fine by me.

Don't get me wrong, I see the rotor has some unique qualities, but not all are desirable or crucial.

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Morphy
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Re: Diagonal Angle Pitch is the Best?
Reply #19 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 12:31pm
 
So J when you say adjust the angle with your left(?) hand are you saying something like you kind of hold the pouch pointing at the target so rgardless of how high or low it is it has the correct feel and angle to hit it?
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Re: Diagonal Angle Pitch is the Best?
Reply #20 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 12:34pm
 

I like the Greek throw with a short sling but I dont find it works well at all with a longer sling (hand to center chest or more). I have found it accurate and quick. A Greek start into a sidearm throw is something I'd like to explore more with the camera to see if I get consistent pouch control and rifled launches.
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J
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Re: Diagonal Angle Pitch is the Best?
Reply #21 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 3:35pm
 
Morphy, to understand what I am saying you must first understand what Jaegoor was saying about rotor angle and height variation and I am saying that basically the same thing can be done with Greek by varying the height of the hand that holds the stone. But honestly, this phenomenon we are discussing is not fully set in stone either because I can still hit low even when the rotor is behind my back and not horizontal, its the final rotation that matters and the transition that is made to that final rotation. He calls it bullshit and in the end its the same circle and we all get back to do things just like we like to do them
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Morphy
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Re: Diagonal Angle Pitch is the Best?
Reply #22 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 3:42pm
 
J wrote on Feb 28th, 2021 at 3:35pm:
Morphy, to understand what I am saying you must first understand what Jaegoor was saying about rotor angle and height variation and I am saying that basically the same thing can be done with Greek by varying the height of the hand that holds the stone. But honestly, this phenomenon we are discussing is not fully set in stone either because I can still hit low even when the rotor is behind my back and not horizontal, its the final rotation that matters and the transition that is made to that final rotation. He calls it bullshit and in the end its the same circle and we all get back to do things just like we like to do them


To be fair if he called it that it was probably more frustration than anything else. I think everyone here has a healthy respect for all the different styles.

But you bring up a good point. Do we have examples of good slingers using rotors in other positions than what has been debated here? And if so how do we account for that?

David Morningstar wrote on Feb 28th, 2021 at 12:34pm:
I like the Greek throw with a short sling but I dont find it works well at all with a longer sling (hand to center chest or more). I have found it accurate and quick. A Greek start into a sidearm throw is something I'd like to explore more with the camera to see if I get consistent pouch control and rifled launches.


I love the "idea" of the Greek throw I just have one problem which is its hard for me to get a good feel for the stone with such a short motion. The wind up is like a quarter turn or less. But ya the idea is very appealing. Hold the sling in such away that you can get a shot off instantly.
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Re: Diagonal Angle Pitch is the Best?
Reply #23 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 3:48pm
 
Try a ~200g stone in a light sling of moderate length. Light sling for me is sub 20 grams. it allows you to feel the stone very quickly in the little time you have. Don't put too much power into the arm like meister Jaegoor always recommends.
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Whoever fears God stands above all manner of fear. He has become a stranger to all the fear of this world and placed it far from himself, and no manner of trembling comes near him. - Ephrem the Syrian
 
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Morphy
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Re: Diagonal Angle Pitch is the Best?
Reply #24 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 3:52pm
 
J wrote on Feb 28th, 2021 at 3:48pm:
Try a ~200g stone in a light sling of moderate length. Light for me is sub 20 grams. it allows you to feel the stone very quickly in the little time you have. Don't put too much power into the arm like meister Jaegoor always recommends.


Great idea J. Is that a tip from Jaegoor? Sounds like good advice. Meister means Master? A fitting title to be sure.
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Re: Diagonal Angle Pitch is the Best?
Reply #25 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 3:54pm
 
Don't think the former is a tip from Jaegoor. I never seen him recommend very light slings, which I understand because he uses a rotor and 190-200g stones usually (I think.). But the tip of reduced power in the arm is from Jaegoor, and I agree that power moderation is key to accuracy (unless you are Luis) and a way to do this is to use a heavier stone instead, so 200g instead of 150g for example, it should automatically slow one down a bit.
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Re: Diagonal Angle Pitch is the Best?
Reply #26 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 4:57pm
 
Many people think that I only shoot very heavy slings.  I do not understand that.  In fact, my range is very diverse.  I'll weigh my Cordaillot sling once.  It certainly has a very low weight.  I also shoot a scaled down version of the Balearic sling.  A real esparto sling is also only light.  But it doesn't change my method.  Less force in the arm does not mean that you shoot with less force.  You only concentrate your strength from a different center.  Luis has changed his style over the years.  At least since I've known him.  There was a time when he had trouble with his elbow.  Why?  Because he shot out of his arm with a lot of force.  We talked about it once in spain.  He now shoots much more emphatically from the hip.  With a very strong shot of accent he supports his hips optimally.  I've been preaching that here for years.  But luis is also a real athlete.  That time is long gone for me.  😁 They say that the Greeks are very quick.  Ok let's compare it.  Here, my suggestion.  30 seconds.  We'll see who can get more shots during this time.
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Re: Diagonal Angle Pitch is the Best?
Reply #27 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 6:08pm
 
Jaegoor wrote on Feb 28th, 2021 at 4:57pm:
Many people think that I only shoot very heavy slings. I do not understand that. In fact, my range is very diverse. I'll weigh my Cordaillot sling once. It certainly has a very low weight. I also shoot a scaled down version of the Balearic sling. A real esparto sling is also only light. But it doesn't change my method. Less force in the arm does not mean that you shoot with less force. You only concentrate your strength from a different center. Luis has changed his style over the years. At least since I've known him. There was a time when he had trouble with his elbow. Why? Because he shot out of his arm with a lot of force. We talked about it once in spain. He now shoots much more emphatically from the hip. With a very strong shot of accent he supports his hips optimally. I've been preaching that here for years. But luis is also a real athlete. That time is long gone for me. 😁 They say that the Greeks are very quick. Ok let's compare it. Here, my suggestion. 30 seconds. We'll see who can get more shots during this time.


This is interesting. As you know Im a big fan of testing a hypothesis. You up for it J? Sounds like a fascinating idea. The greek throw might just be the one style that can win. What say you my good man?

Jaegoor perhaps you guys could do one test where you see who can get the most shots off in 30 seconds and then do another to see who can get the most shots off with the most hits on a target?

That would really be fun to watch.
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Re: Diagonal Angle Pitch is the Best?
Reply #28 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 6:20pm
 
Jaegoor wrote on Feb 28th, 2021 at 4:57pm:
Here, my suggestion. 30 seconds. We'll see who can get more shots during this time.


In my experience, the efficient loading of the pouch and grabbing a new stone after throwing is the majority of the time to sling multiple shots, the style itself will have little effect. It's the efficiency of the loading that counts.

So, I suggest to prove your point, Jaegoor, YOU try both styles and see how much of a difference there is. And J, can do the same.

However, Just based on the fact that you don't have to rotate the sling before throwing should decrease the time, if only by a small amount. That is what it did in my experience. I have timed myself with single rotations and greek. Greek style wins by a small amount. But I'm less accurate with Greek style.
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Re: Diagonal Angle Pitch is the Best?
Reply #29 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 6:40pm
 
IronGoober wrote on Feb 28th, 2021 at 6:20pm:
Jaegoor wrote on Feb 28th, 2021 at 4:57pm:
Here, my suggestion. 30 seconds. We'll see who can get more shots during this time.


In my experience, the efficient loading of the pouch and grabbing a new stone after throwing is the majority of the time to sling multiple shots, the style itself will have little effect. It's the efficiency of the loading that counts.


Youre probably right J.
(2nd video in series)
https://www.instagram.com/p/CLjj2YoFEqr/
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My final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES! Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none! -Jesus the Noodler
 
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