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Brick bullets ? (Read 2263 times)
xud9a - call me zud 👍
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Re: Brick bullets ?
Reply #15 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 5:55pm
 
Sorry, Morphy, your point about carrying sling ammo is valid ....but if you were defending a built environment there would be a resident brick maker. To me Curious Aardvarks 3D printed clay glande roller is genius level insanity. Put a carpenter with a gouge chisel or even an adze in front of a pair of decent planks and in about an hour you would have a glande roller turning out around 20 glandes ready for firing (in the kiln) every 2 to 3 minutes. There are some in the british museum collection.
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joe_meadmaker
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Re: Brick bullets ?
Reply #16 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 6:43pm
 
xud9a - call me zud 👍 wrote on Feb 1st, 2021 at 5:55pm:
but if you were defending a built environment there would be a resident brick maker.

Or a mason and a quarry.
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Morphy
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Re: Brick bullets ?
Reply #17 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 6:54pm
 
Oh didn't realize you were specifically talking about defending a siege. That's different. Different rules apply I guess.
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xud9a - call me zud 👍
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Re: Brick bullets ?
Reply #18 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 8:36pm
 
Joe Meadmaker,  ouch, note to self, precision of language required ! 🤗
Morphy, not seige specifically but also a valid point 👍
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Morphy
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Re: Brick bullets ?
Reply #19 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 8:48pm
 
Now granted I don't know much about history but is it logistically reasonable for an ancient army to haul 45 tons worth of bricks just for their slinging regiment? Seems like a good way to die. Again you might be completely right here Zud. Not trying to be contradictory but my goodness that's a lot of weight for just one very specific purpose.
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xud9a - call me zud 👍
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Re: Brick bullets ?
Reply #20 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 9:20pm
 
Jeez Morphy, 45 tons, that's specific. Was that the SWL for a Roman ass ?  🤪🤪🤓
Being heavily sidetracked from my original point......all I'm suggesting is, that if you were  in any proximity to a brick maker and he was either making or, ordered to make glandes why would you not have at least a few in your slingers bag ?
Similarly, if there is a serious desire to standardise sport slinging or to get a solid data set then I am offering the concept for discussion 👍
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Morphy
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Re: Brick bullets ?
Reply #21 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 9:47pm
 
Standardized ammo would be interesting. I think we have discussed it and as usual all formed different answers on the subject haha.

So I'm terrible at math but let's do a scenario. Say we have a 3000 strong regiment for a big army. I'm sure the Persians could've easily put that many out at one time. Many others as well. We are talking bricks here so I went 8oz to be conservative. Bricks are generally a lot more but eh. That's a heavy shot and realistically would do serious damage.

Let's say each slinger gets 60 shots. We all know how fast 60 shots go. They would be out in no time flat but again trying to stay conservative.

8 x 60= 480oz times 3,000 slingers = 1,440,000 ounces. Divide by 16 to get pounds=90,000 pounds divide by 2000 equals 45 tons.

Not scientific but realistic at least. Well logical, the realism is what I'm struggling with. But again I'm not offering any real facts here. Now assuming they weren't  cavemen I'm sure they realized the huge power benefit of egg shaped ammo over broken stone, jagged stone. When life is on the line that extra distance can mean living.

So here's where we see just how conservative I'm being. Ancient armies did indeed have blacksmiths and weapons makers by the cartloads following them to keep the supplies up. Fletchers would follow medieval armies constantly churning out arrows. A process that is much faster than shaping stone with crude hand tools.

One would have to have at least an equivalent weight of unprocessed stone to be constantly making new ammo as the old stuff gets thrown and either broken,  retrieved or lost due to things like retreat and what not.

So for an army big enough to have that many slingers we are talking far more than 45 tons if we are looking at realistic slingers ready at any moment for battle. Let's say they each have a measly 30 shots that's still 22.5 tons not including unprocessed stone.

So anyways over thinking this by a fair measure but it's a fun thought experiment and as someone who's made quite a bit of primitive weapons over the years I am really having trouble understanding.

On the other hand it does explain perfectly why certain armies were so fond of extremely light lead.
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xud9a - call me zud 👍
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Re: Brick bullets ?
Reply #22 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 9:58pm
 
I knew I was playing with the big brains !
My apologies for lack of clarity.  I titled the thread brick bullets and thought that I was being clear that I mean glandes made from clay and fired in a kiln NOT to use whole, or even half bricks as bullets.
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Morphy
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Re: Brick bullets ?
Reply #23 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 10:01pm
 
Ahh see lol. You got me! I concede my good sir! Honorable battle!
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xud9a - call me zud 👍
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Re: Brick bullets ?
Reply #24 - Feb 1st, 2021 at 10:14pm
 
Nice one Morphy, I can see I'm going to feel at home here 😇☕
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My outlook on life is Aristotalean; on seeing an Acorn I see a potential oak tree rather than Plato's view that it is a failed copy.
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Morphy
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Re: Brick bullets ?
Reply #25 - Feb 2nd, 2021 at 8:20am
 
xud9a - call me zud 👍 wrote on Feb 1st, 2021 at 10:14pm:
Nice one Morphy, I can see I'm going to feel at home here 😇☕

I'm glad you are here Zud. This is as good a place as any to call home on the net.
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xud9a - call me zud 👍
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Re: Brick bullets ?
Reply #26 - Feb 2nd, 2021 at 8:38pm
 
That's the nicest thing anyone has said to me in a long time. I'm going all mushy inside    Cool
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My outlook on life is Aristotalean; on seeing an Acorn I see a potential oak tree rather than Plato's view that it is a failed copy.
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Re: Brick bullets ?
Reply #27 - Feb 8th, 2021 at 12:31pm
 
https://museum.wales/collections/online/object/1ffdbeda-3d88-3825-ac01-904705c41...

Roman ceramic sling-shot.
Most weight's I have seen on online museum collections are ~50-60g
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Jaegoor
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Re: Brick bullets ?
Reply #28 - Feb 8th, 2021 at 2:56pm
 
Morphy's right.  The effort is considerable.  Even if they have a shape.  Burning would again be a considerable effort.  Better to just dry the ammunition.  You can use the material over and over again.  I once used 60kg of lead to make glandes.  That was a lot of work.  There is an old tower in the city of Soest.  There, 25,000 crossbow arrows were found in an old cellar.  It was the ammunition for a few hours.
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xud9a - call me zud 👍
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Re: Brick bullets ?
Reply #29 - Feb 8th, 2021 at 6:05pm
 
Greetings Albion, isn't it a thing of beauty, many more in the online collection of the British museum. Jaegoor, earlier in the thread I give my arguments as to how a brick maker and his lad could turn out 5000 bullets a day.
In fact, looking at the ceramic bullet in Albion's post it clearly shows dark staining identical to over baking on bricks  through the ages.
If we, as sporting slingers, were looking for a cheap, standard ammo then baked clay bullets made by a brickmaker I.e. brick bullets could be an option. Cheers. 🤓
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My outlook on life is Aristotalean; on seeing an Acorn I see a potential oak tree rather than Plato's view that it is a failed copy.
Look forward to meeting at Slingfest 2022.
BE SAFE,    BE SMILEY,   BE STRANGE
 
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