Slinging.org Forum - Interesting reddit thread on slinging in the medieval era

NooneOfConsequence

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Re: Interesting reddit thread on slinging in the medieval era
Reply #15 - Jan 25^th, 2021 at 9:01am

Archaic Arms wrote on Jan 25^th, 2021 at 7:05am:

Scorpion Vin wrote on Jan 25^th, 2021 at 6:49am:

An experienced slinger can outperform even a 9mm pistol in joule energy.

9mm PB is between ~400-600J
Luis can apparently throw ~350J and he is the most powerful slinger I know of. Pistol calibers are easy to beat in terms of momentum, but kinetic energy is a different animal.

Do we really need to recycle this conversation again? Energy, pressure, momentum, and shot placement all matter, and there is no direct comparison on all of these things between a bullet and a sling stone. Both are potentially deadly, but the physical effects of the terminal ballistics are different from each other... just like the terminal effects of a 60g lead glande are different from the effects of a 300g stone ...just like the terminal ballistics of a 5.56mm rifle bullet are different than a subsonic .45 caliber. If you are cornered and have no other choice but to fight to defend yourself or your family, choose a gun... almost any gun over a sling. If we (falsely) assume both are equally deadly, then a gun wins on speed of deployment, rate of fire, capacity, and accuracy in almost every situation. A sling is not a gun.

Can we move on now?

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“My final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES! Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!“ -Jesus the Noodler

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hubert Senior Member Offline Posts: 312 Oschersleben Gender:	Re: Interesting reddit thread on slinging in the medieval era Reply #16 - Jan 25^th, 2021 at 9:38am Scythians often use clubs, they consisted of a stone wrapped in leather. It can easily look like a sling on images, but you should be very, very careful when interpreting it.
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NooneOfConsequence

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Re: Interesting reddit thread on slinging in the medieval era
Reply #17 - Jan 25^th, 2021 at 9:45am

On a completely unrelated note... the post mentioned two-handed slings??? Has anyone tried that? Any style other than pirouette? Definitely not something to throw with figure-8 style.

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“My final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES! Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!“ -Jesus the Noodler

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Archaic Arms

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Re: Interesting reddit thread on slinging in the medieval era
Reply #18 - Jan 25^th, 2021 at 12:04pm

NooneOfConsequence wrote on Jan 25^th, 2021 at 9:01am:

Do we really need to recycle this conversation again? Energy, pressure, momentum, and shot placement all matter, and there is no direct comparison on all of these things between a bullet and a sling stone. Both are potentially deadly, but the physical effects of the terminal ballistics are different from each other... just like the terminal effects of a 60g lead glande are different from the effects of a 300g stone ...just like the terminal ballistics of a 5.56mm rifle bullet are different than a subsonic .45 caliber. If you are cornered and have no other choice but to fight to defend yourself or your family, choose a gun... almost any gun over a sling. If we (falsely) assume both are equally deadly, then a gun wins on speed of deployment, rate of fire, capacity, and accuracy in almost every situation. A sling is not a gun.

Can we move on now?

There wasn't any mention of terminal ballistics, effectiveness, guns vs slings for self defense, or any of those things. It was simply a number comparison which can mean anything or nothing to you.

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Lewis

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JudoP

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Re: Interesting reddit thread on slinging in the medieval era
Reply #19 - Jan 25^th, 2021 at 1:40pm

I agree with NooC that gun vs sling comparison is quite weak.

Injury is complex and dependant on so many factors. How much energy does it take for a razor sharp knife to slice the carotid? Basically nothing- yet it's certainly fatal. At the same time a human can be rugby tackled constantly and sustain no injury despite the momentum involved being vastly higher than even extremely powerful rifles. You can scale it up even further, I'm not afraid of a steam locomotive hitting me at 0.1m/s, yet as it turns out, I wouldn't like to be shot with a 9mm round.

Momentum may have some use in determining effect but it clearly leads to absurd conclusions if taken too far. A sling surely can be deadly, but we are talking an order of magnitude or (even two orders) increase in projectile mass, and a corresponding huge drop in speed. It's just a very different situation and injury is caused in a different way.

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JudoP Funditor Offline Rocks away! Posts: 938 UK	Re: Interesting reddit thread on slinging in the medieval era Reply #20 - Jan 27^th, 2021 at 5:13pm https://www.reddit.com/r/Slinging/comments/l4q3dr/medieval_slingers_part_3_prepa... Part 3
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Morphy Slinging.org Moderator Offline Checkmate Posts: 8102	Re: Interesting reddit thread on slinging in the medieval era Reply #21 - Jan 27^th, 2021 at 5:49pm There is no comparison. Guns are far more lethal. You would be surprised how many seemingly superficial bullet wounds end up killing people. It's nothing like you see on tv. I'll take being slung at any day.
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Jaegoor

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Re: Interesting reddit thread on slinging in the medieval era
Reply #22 - Jan 27^th, 2021 at 6:31pm

Tatsächlich beginnt man erst damit wund Traumata durch historische waffen zu erforschen. Gerade was die sling betrifft, gibt es nur wenig. Vorreiter ist hier die Universität Edinburgh. Dort habe ich vor vielen jahren begonnen testkörper zu beschießen. Es zeigte sich, das selbst streifschüsse schwerste Brüche verursachen. Und tatsächlich gibt es Schädel funde mit exakt gleichen Verletzungen. Wir haben streifschüsse dokumentiert wo das ganze jochbein abgerissen wurde und der oberkiefer bis über die Schädel Basis brach. Ein solcher Treffer wäre tödlich. Das Video habe ich hier bereits gezeigt. Von Luis gibt es ein ähnliche Videos. Von Griechen und Römern gibt es Berichte wonach Treffer auf Rüstungen kaum schaden an der rüstung verursachte. Der soldat aber trotzdem verstarb. Es ich kenne einen Schädel wo ein treffer überlebt wurde. Der Schädel war verheilt. Jedoch war er mit großer Sicherheit blind nach dem Treffer. Römische Ärzte hatten spezielle Instrumente und Sonden um glandes zu entfernen.
Fakt ist also, die sling ist eine tödliche waffe. Scheiß egal ob 22 oder 44 Magnum.

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Scorpion Vin

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Re: Interesting reddit thread on slinging in the medieval era
Reply #23 - Jan 27^th, 2021 at 6:35pm

NooneOfConsequence wrote on Jan 25^th, 2021 at 9:01am:

Energy, pressure, momentum, and shot placement all matter, and there is no direct comparison on all of these things between a bullet and a sling stone.

Most likely you are right. But I saw a video on YouTube of the police firing 12 shots at a suspect who resisted, 10 of those shots hit him and he survived. A firearm has negligible momentum compared to a sling. And in fact, not only is there no direct comparison between a sling and firearms, but in general, in principle, nothing can be directly compared, I think so. And speaking of energy in joules, Pistol Makarov, PM, caliber 9mm 9x18
bullet weight 5.54 - 5.8 grammes
bullet speed 315 meters per second, have energy 297.675 Joules
maximum 300 - 320 Joules.
one kilogram of bullet stopping action.
a prime example of when a firearm fails in theory.
But no practice.
In sling with stone 100 grammes flies speed 30 meters per second have 6 kilogram stopping action.
And 90 Joules energy

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Pistol_Makarov.jpg (22 KB | 26 )

"Do you know, that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom.” ― Terry Pratchett

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NooneOfConsequence

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Re: Interesting reddit thread on slinging in the medieval era
Reply #24 - Jan 27^th, 2021 at 6:44pm

NooneOfConsequence wrote on Jan 25^th, 2021 at 9:01am:

Can we move on now?

Apparently not.

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“My final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES! Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!“ -Jesus the Noodler

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Morphy

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Re: Interesting reddit thread on slinging in the medieval era
Reply #25 - Jan 27^th, 2021 at 6:50pm

Jaegoor wrote on Jan 27^th, 2021 at 6:31pm:

Tatsächlich beginnt man erst damit wund Traumata durch historische waffen zu erforschen. Gerade was die sling betrifft, gibt es nur wenig. Vorreiter ist hier die Universität Edinburgh. Dort habe ich vor vielen jahren begonnen testkörper zu beschießen. Es zeigte sich, das selbst streifschüsse schwerste Brüche verursachen. Und tatsächlich gibt es Schädel funde mit exakt gleichen Verletzungen. Wir haben streifschüsse dokumentiert wo das ganze jochbein abgerissen wurde und der oberkiefer bis über die Schädel Basis brach. Ein solcher Treffer wäre tödlich. Das Video habe ich hier bereits gezeigt. Von Luis gibt es ein ähnliche Videos. Von Griechen und Römern gibt es Berichte wonach Treffer auf Rüstungen kaum schaden an der rüstung verursachte. Der soldat aber trotzdem verstarb. Es ich kenne einen Schädel wo ein treffer überlebt wurde. Der Schädel war verheilt. Jedoch war er mit großer Sicherheit blind nach dem Treffer. Römische Ärzte hatten spezielle Instrumente und Sonden um glandes zu entfernen.
Fakt ist also, die sling ist eine tödliche waffe. Scheiß egal ob 22 oder 44 Magnum.

I don't think anyone is questioning whether slings are lethal. But all things considered they don't compare to fire arms. They can do huge damage and kill. An arrow can kill just as fast with far less energy.

So I guess to agree with a few posts here, it's not just the amount of energy used it's how it's used. I can run a dump truck into you at 5 miles an hour it won't do anything but it will have tons of energy if that's the goal.

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Scorpion Vin Descens Offline Still slinging better than archery! Posts: 210 Gender:	Re: Interesting reddit thread on slinging in the medieval era Reply #26 - Jan 27^th, 2021 at 6:56pm NooneOfConsequence wrote on Jan 27^th, 2021 at 6:44pm: Apparently not. I agree with you, moving on. A sling is good if there is nothing left at all, or you run out of ammo. In all other respects, of course, firearms wins.
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NooneOfConsequence

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Re: Interesting reddit thread on slinging in the medieval era
Reply #27 - Jan 28^th, 2021 at 12:30am

NooneOfConsequence wrote on Jan 25^th, 2021 at 9:45am:

On a completely unrelated note... the post mentioned two-handed slings??? Has anyone tried that? Any style other than pirouette? Definitely not something to throw with figure-8 style.

Bumping this back into the conversation because everyone was too busy talking about guns...

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“My final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES! Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!“ -Jesus the Noodler

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Sarosh Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Posts: 1147	Re: Interesting reddit thread on slinging in the medieval era Reply #28 - Jan 28^th, 2021 at 2:44am NooneOfConsequence wrote on Jan 28^th, 2021 at 12:30am: the post mentioned two-handed slings??? where? can't find it
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NooneOfConsequence

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Re: Interesting reddit thread on slinging in the medieval era
Reply #29 - Jan 28^th, 2021 at 9:05am

Sarosh wrote on Jan 28^th, 2021 at 2:44am:

NooneOfConsequence wrote on Jan 28^th, 2021 at 12:30am:

the post mentioned two-handed slings???

where? can't find it

I think I saw it in the second one in the series. It’s based on an interpretation of one of the medieval drawings... which might just mean that the artist was bad at drawing... not that two-handed slings are a thing. Either way is plausible.

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“My final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES! Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!“ -Jesus the Noodler

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