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The trick to a good sling (Read 8877 times)
AncientCraftwork
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Re: The trick to a good sling
Reply #90 - Feb 3rd, 2021 at 2:09pm
 
It may be confusing to others and come across as contradictionary. It does not me to me. I do not like to waste time and wait year before I share my findings when I am experimenting for a few days straight on. I always try to explain what is different.
Maybe I should just use ''I'' instead of ''you'' or ''we''. The only thing I am explaining is that ''The trick to a good sling'' still stands; ie, stiffer, denser, possibly thicker cords help to prevent pouch angle misalignment during a multiple-rotations sling throw ie Balearic style or Helicopter. Now in the case with Greek style, the pouch turns on its axis only once,  due to the lack of multiple rotations. This allows thinner, longer and less stiff cords without sacrificing pouch angle control all that much. And I always try to say you can still use multiple rotations on the floppiest sling you want,  you could even pinch both cords in a hand and swing that sling 1000 rpm and let go and say that's the way to do it if you want.  But I know there are some people here that do appreciate this talk because they are also out there slinging and some of it this might resonate
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All Glory to God forever and ever, amen
 
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AncientCraftwork
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Re: The trick to a good sling
Reply #91 - Feb 3rd, 2021 at 2:18pm
 
But if its not appreciated, I understand, and I will retreat from the public space, and share my findings personally with others , away from the prying eyes of beginner slingers, and keep the public forum for nothing significant. Maybe that is better.
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Oxnate
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Re: The trick to a good sling
Reply #92 - Feb 3rd, 2021 at 2:33pm
 
AncientCraftwork wrote on Feb 3rd, 2021 at 2:18pm:
But if its not appreciated, I understand, and I will retreat from the public space, and share my findings personally with others , away from the prying eyes of beginner slingers, and keep the public forum for nothing significant. Maybe that is better.


I appreciate all viewpoints.  Though especially ones that have done it themselves.  So I definitely want to see anything that's been proven experimentally.  Even more so if you film yourself and post it to youtube.
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Sorry, but it's a pet peeve of mine:  'Yea' isn't the word you want.  It's 'yeah'.  'Yea' is an anachronistic word you see in the King James bible. "Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Spellcheck, I shall fear no misspellings for thou art with me.  Thy dictionary and thy thesaurus, they comfort me.
 
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Rat Man
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Re: The trick to a good sling
Reply #93 - Feb 3rd, 2021 at 2:33pm
 
    I feel safe in saying that your posts are appreciated by the entire forum.
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Morphy
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Re: The trick to a good sling
Reply #94 - Feb 3rd, 2021 at 2:37pm
 
AncientCraftwork wrote on Feb 3rd, 2021 at 2:18pm:
But if its not appreciated, I understand, and I will retreat from the public space, and share my findings personally with others , away from the prying eyes of beginner slingers, and keep the public forum for nothing significant. Maybe that is better.


That response is exactly the opposite of what I said. I appreciate all your posts but I think the way you are phrasing things could be better.

Thats as simple as I can make it. You don't need to take off just because someone has an opposing viewpoint...
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Morphy
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Re: The trick to a good sling
Reply #95 - Feb 3rd, 2021 at 3:18pm
 
ďAs to the question, how sure are we that the cords ARE floppy? Has testing been done? I know what you are thinking...just pick up the cord and look at it Morphy.

Great...has anyone actually tested rigidity with actual numbers while under load? No, didnít think so. For all we know a paracord cord and a Balaeric cord have similar levels of rigidity when under the stress of an 8 oz stone spinning at 100 mph. Does it make sense that they are more floppy during the shot. Sure. But we dont know!Ē



Ahhh....well. Sorry if I caused a bit of a flustercluck here. Was not my intention. And J I hope you donít leave. Letís just let this go for now.

But one thing I will take from this is to put my money where my mouth is. All it should take to get a general idea on floppy vs stiff is a fish scale, a sisal cord and a paracord. Swing around the weight at slinging speeds. Get a poundage for how much weight is on the cords at peak load. Then hang both at the given weight for that sling and test for lateral movement of the cords under similar loads. I suspect the difference will be minimal. But I am always ready to change my mind when itís proven otherwise. So toss this one on the list of things to do. Letís just get this figured out once and for all. 1 test can be worth more than 15 years of theory. Of that I am sure...

† ††


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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: The trick to a good sling
Reply #96 - Feb 3rd, 2021 at 3:23pm
 
Rat Man wrote on Feb 3rd, 2021 at 2:33pm:
† † I feel safe in saying that your posts are appreciated by the entire forum.†


I second that.

Morphy wrote on Feb 3rd, 2021 at 2:37pm:
AncientCraftwork wrote on Feb 3rd, 2021 at 2:18pm:
But if its not appreciated, I understand, and I will retreat from the public space, and share my findings personally with others , away from the prying eyes of beginner slingers, and keep the public forum for nothing significant. Maybe that is better.


That response is exactly the opposite of what I said. I appreciate all your posts but I think the way you are phrasing things could be better.

Thats as simple as I can make it. You don't need to take off just because someone has an opposing viewpoint...


I also second that.  Many of us love a lively debate, and if we disagree with you, that does not mean we are rejecting you just because we aren't convinced of your ideas. 

When you say "this is how it is" over and over again while constantly changing what "it" is, there's not a lot of room for disagreement or discussion, so I find myself just tuning you out sometimes J.

If you aren't interested in a group conversation and all you want to do is share your strong viewpoints without having them tested or questioned by others, then I guess that's ok.  If everyone on the forum did that though, I would get really bored really fast.  I prefer to use debate to find the areas where I am wrong but blind to my wrongness so I can make corrections to my understanding. 

I also like to learn from other people, because life's too short to test everything out for yourself.  It's much more efficient to learn from other people when you can. 

What I really like about you Jauke is that you question conventions and assumptions that everyone else takes for granted.  Just please don't replace those stagnant traditions with new conventions that might be just as wrong.  Instead, let's all work together to get closer to the truth.   That's my dream for slinging.org

...and of course a little lively debate can also be quite entertaining too Grin
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ďMy final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!† Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!ď† -Jesus the Noodler
 
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: The trick to a good sling
Reply #97 - Feb 3rd, 2021 at 3:28pm
 
Morphy wrote on Feb 3rd, 2021 at 3:18pm:
ďAs to the question, how sure are we that the cords ARE floppy? Has testing been done? I know what you are thinking...just pick up the cord and look at it Morphy.

Great...has anyone actually tested rigidity with actual numbers while under load? No, didnít think so. For all we know a paracord cord and a Balaeric cord have similar levels of rigidity when under the stress of an 8 oz stone spinning at 100 mph. Does it make sense that they are more floppy during the shot. Sure. But we dont know!Ē



Ahhh....well. Sorry if I caused a bit of a flustercluck here. Was not my intention. And J I hope you donít leave. Letís just let this go for now.

But one thing I will take from this is to put my money where my mouth is. All it should take to get a general idea on floppy vs stiff is a fish scale, a sisal cord and a paracord. Swing around the weight at slinging speeds. Get a poundage for how much weight is exerted. Then hang both at the given weight for that sling and test for lateral movement of the cords under similar loads. I suspect the difference will be minimal. But I am always ready to change my mind when itís proven otherwise. So toss this one on the list of things to do. Letís just get this figured out once and for all. 1 test can be worth more than 15 years of theory. Of that I am sure...




One of the big challenges is agreeing on a definition.  What exactly do you mean by "floppy"?  Is that also what I mean when I say floppy?  Lack of precision in definitions is one of the greatest causes of misunderstandings.  Theory doesn't get a lot of love on this forum because people have thrown out a lot of unproven theories and they have never been tested, but I would argue that we just aren't using theory well.  There are unlimited numbers of things to test.  Theory should help us to narrow testing down to a reasonable set of things to try.  That only works though if there is clarity on what the actual theory is, and that requires more precise language than you normally get from words like "floppy".
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ďMy final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!† Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!ď† -Jesus the Noodler
 
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Morphy
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Re: The trick to a good sling
Reply #98 - Feb 3rd, 2021 at 3:35pm
 
NooneOfConsequence wrote on Feb 3rd, 2021 at 3:28pm:
Morphy wrote on Feb 3rd, 2021 at 3:18pm:
ďAs to the question, how sure are we that the cords ARE floppy? Has testing been done? I know what you are thinking...just pick up the cord and look at it Morphy.

Great...has anyone actually tested rigidity with actual numbers while under load? No, didnít think so. For all we know a paracord cord and a Balaeric cord have similar levels of rigidity when under the stress of an 8 oz stone spinning at 100 mph. Does it make sense that they are more floppy during the shot. Sure. But we dont know!Ē



Ahhh....well. Sorry if I caused a bit of a flustercluck here. Was not my intention. And J I hope you donít leave. Letís just let this go for now.

But one thing I will take from this is to put my money where my mouth is. All it should take to get a general idea on floppy vs stiff is a fish scale, a sisal cord and a paracord. Swing around the weight at slinging speeds. Get a poundage for how much weight is exerted. Then hang both at the given weight for that sling and test for lateral movement of the cords under similar loads. I suspect the difference will be minimal. But I am always ready to change my mind when itís proven otherwise. So toss this one on the list of things to do. Letís just get this figured out once and for all. 1 test can be worth more than 15 years of theory. Of that I am sure...




One of the big challenges is agreeing on a definition.† What exactly do you mean by "floppy"?† Is that also what I mean when I say floppy?† Lack of precision in definitions is one of the greatest causes of misunderstandings.† Theory doesn't get a lot of love on this forum because people have thrown out a lot of unproven theories and they have never been tested, but I would argue that we just aren't using theory well.† There are unlimited numbers of things to test.† Theory should help us to narrow testing down to a reasonable set of things to try.† That only works though if there is clarity on what the actual theory is, and that requires more precise language than you normally get from words like "floppy".


We think a like on a lot of things. Yes you are right. So here's my go at it, keeping in mind I'm not an engineer. Floppy = cord which undergoes lateral deformation or torsion in a cord which is greater than or equal to 50% of other cords. Like an LD50 but without so much death involved.  Roll Eyes
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JudoP
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Re: The trick to a good sling
Reply #99 - Feb 3rd, 2021 at 3:35pm
 
Jauke, nobody here wants you to leave. You do a lot of experimentation and innovation and bring a lot to the forum.

The criticism is more about the presentation of your ideas as established fact rather than a theory- which much more accurately reflects the state of evidence. Just in the past year you have drastically changed your perspective on sling design several times and every single time you have had total belief in your theory of the day. It's of course normal and good to learn and change your mind but if you always present your current theory as fact, and that fact changes every few months then people will start taking what you say with a massive grain of salt.

Why not be slightly more humble? Accept like all of us here that you likely do not have the full picture, but nevertheless may have valuable theories and results. That way changing your mind is easy and you don't feel the need to do massive takebacks and deleting all your posts etc.

It's your words and view anyway, whether you take this advice or not I still think nobody would want you to leave.
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AncientCraftwork
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Re: The trick to a good sling
Reply #100 - Feb 3rd, 2021 at 3:59pm
 
I will agree my presentation has issues. Luckily I am not a native english Speaker and can use this as an excuse. There is a lot of misunderstanding due to the way internet talks work. Fear not because after what† I shared in this topic, I honestly can't think of any other area of slings to to my interest that I can still explore or talk about. It feels I have reached what there is to know and I am close to the settling down, at least for 95% percent of it, which is sufficient enough. My testing is not with mathematics or machines, it is by looking at history, my eye sight, and my intuition, and that is enough for me. Lets see where I am in a few months time. If I still hold to these convictions, for a few damn months even, than its evident enough. I don't see my viewpoints as contradictiory or conflicting to my past viewpoints, but as evolutionary.
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Morphy
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Re: The trick to a good sling
Reply #101 - Feb 3rd, 2021 at 5:08pm
 
...
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: The trick to a good sling
Reply #102 - Feb 3rd, 2021 at 5:39pm
 
Why not both?!
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ďMy final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!† Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!ď† -Jesus the Noodler
 
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Morphy
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Re: The trick to a good sling
Reply #103 - Feb 3rd, 2021 at 6:10pm
 
NooneOfConsequence wrote on Feb 3rd, 2021 at 5:39pm:
Why not both?!


If God hadn't intended us to hit both buttons we wouldn't have two hands. -Abe Lincoln
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