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New Sling Innovations (Read 2039 times)
Morphy
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Re: New Sling Innovations
Reply #15 - Dec 14th, 2020 at 8:57am
 
AncientCraftwork wrote on Dec 14th, 2020 at 8:42am:
Morphy wrote on Dec 14th, 2020 at 7:38am:
The Balearic slings have attained an almost mythical quality. I'm skeptical Of the superiority but they are truly excellent slings. Luis' sling is the one I need more than any other for my collection.


Nothing mystical about it Morphy. We have determined these certain qualities that make a good sling. Lateral stability, so that the pouch angle can be controlled by the wrist, and so that the sling is quick to reload and doesn't tangle all up on you after a shot. A stiff split pouch, so that a wide range of ammunition can be shot and adaptability to different shapes and sizes. A grippy release but smooth release cord, so that no knots are required for a clean release out of the hand. A repairable release cord, because that is the part that wears out the quickest. The Balearic sling has many of these qualities build right in. Natural fibre construction, that synches you to the past and makes you independent from the system.

However, it comes at a price, the sling becomes heavy and it loses some speed in the aerodynamic departments.

If you can combine the qualities of a Balearic sling in a thinner, more efficent set up you hit the gold mine of slings.
I think I just did....




At the risk of sounding like a complete jackass while I do think there's a lot of good about the Balearic sling there was a time long ago when I felt I could keep up with just about anyone target wise with my paracord and leather Apache sling. My standard distance was 25-30 meters on a target smaller than a paper plate. Hits were quite common.

The only reason I bring this up is because it is one of the two main reasons I don't buy into sling superiority as we know it today. My experience has proven to me that many sling types can work. Not theory here, real experience.

The other is that I've been a member here an awfully long time and I've seen people who are very outspoken on slings and throwing styles have to back track multiple times on what can and can't be done with various throwing styles/slings.

The traditional bowyers Bible has a wonderful quote that I always try to remind myself of. The gist of it is basically - "The absolute certainty you feel about your current theory is the same certainty you felt about your last one right before realizing you were wrong."

So that being said my current position which I've held for years now is that everyone's right and everyone's wrong until we can prove scientifically what the truth is. Opinions mean nothing when it comes to understanding truth.
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AncientCraftwork
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Re: New Sling Innovations
Reply #16 - Dec 14th, 2020 at 11:16am
 
Fair enough
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: New Sling Innovations
Reply #17 - Dec 14th, 2020 at 2:44pm
 
Oooh... them’s fightin’ words Morphy!
How dare you say that the paracord and leather sling you made in 5 minutes is just as effective as my masterpiece Balearic made from the finest of yarns spun from the hair of a thousand Persian kittens, then inlaid with goldleaf and emerald encrusted tiger hide and beaded with antique narwhal ivory. Your dead cow on a string is inferior in every way!  Also... you smell bad, and you are the effigeal love child of Hitler’s ghost and Queen Jezebel, so neener, neener, neener!
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“My final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!  Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!“  -Jesus the Noodler
 
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Morphy
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Re: New Sling Innovations
Reply #18 - Dec 14th, 2020 at 4:10pm
 
NooneOfConsequence wrote on Dec 14th, 2020 at 2:44pm:
Oooh... them’s fightin’ words Morphy!
How dare you say that the paracord and leather sling you made in 5 minutes is just as effective as my masterpiece Balearic made from the finest of yarns spun from the hair of a thousand Persian kittens, then inlaid with goldleaf and emerald encrusted tiger hide and beaded with antique narwhal ivory. Your dead cow on a string is inferior in every way!  Also... you smell bad, and you are the effigeal love child of Hitler’s ghost and Queen Jezebel, so neener, neener, neener!


You joke but that short mustached freak can sling with the best of them.  Cheesy
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: New Sling Innovations
Reply #19 - Dec 14th, 2020 at 4:36pm
 
At least I didn’t call you “literally Hitler” Smiley
Considering that my signature sling is a piece of leather attached to some paracord, I may also be overcompensating a bit in my jest.

Also, I really wonder how Google Translate is going to handle my last post Grin
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“My final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!  Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!“  -Jesus the Noodler
 
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Morphy
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Re: New Sling Innovations
Reply #20 - Dec 15th, 2020 at 11:11am
 
NooneOfConsequence wrote on Dec 14th, 2020 at 4:36pm:
Also, I really wonder how Google Translate is going to handle my last post Grin


There it is. Asking the real questions. Throwing that bait in are we NOOC?  Grin Grin Grin
Technically the fisherman doesn't force the fish to bite but you are a real expert when it comes to baiting. Not quite a master but maybe that's not a bad thing.
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JudoP
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Re: New Sling Innovations
Reply #21 - Dec 16th, 2020 at 8:58am
 
Morphy wrote on Dec 14th, 2020 at 8:57am:
At the risk of sounding like a complete jackass while I do think there's a lot of good about the Balearic sling there was a time long ago when I felt I could keep up with just about anyone target wise with my paracord and leather Apache sling. My standard distance was 25-30 meters on a target smaller than a paper plate. Hits were quite common.


I agree that I don't think there is anything magical about balearics. I think their benefits and drawbacks are all explainable and other well made slings are also perfectly capable of top notch accuracy. For example many of my apaches I've made have what I consider pretty much perfect releases. Even plain paracord slings with good pouches can have excellent release since the release cord is so light.

Balearics:
+ Stiffness and thickness give good control and responsiveness to pouch orientation
+ Stiffness and thickness give excellent stability against rolling and thus improved retention of large ammo especially
+ Tapering stiffness and thickness, as well as a smooth transition to the release cord give smooth and clean release on all ammo sizes
- Thickness/stiffness make a relatively heavy sling which reduces achievable projectile speed, especially with light ammo

There may be more points but these seem the mainline uncontroversial(?) qualities of balearic slings.

Many of these benefits can be achieved by similar or very different designs, however the combined benefits make balearic slings pretty much the ideal sling for throwing heavier ammo (120g+) for accuracy IMO.
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Morphy
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Re: New Sling Innovations
Reply #22 - Dec 16th, 2020 at 6:29pm
 
Pretty much spot on with my views there JudoP. You just put it better than I would and with a lot less sexual innuendos.

However part of my bias may be that the Balearics especially seem to not work well at all with the Figure 8 or Apache styles. Two of my favorite styles. Well let me rephrase that... a dead possum could conceivably be used to sling a stone figure 8 but I have to draw the line somewhere and for me a heavy, bulky balearic is that line. I Just Do Not like the feel at all.

For the large stone and side arm combo it's an excellent weapon though.
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Re: New Sling Innovations
Reply #23 - Dec 17th, 2020 at 6:54am
 
Morphy wrote on Dec 16th, 2020 at 6:29pm:
Pretty much spot on with my views there JudoP. You just put it better than I would and with a lot less sexual innuendos.

However part of my bias may be that the Balearics especially seem to not work well at all with the Figure 8 or Apache styles. Two of my favorite styles. Well let me rephrase that... a dead possum could conceivably be used to sling a stone figure 8 but I have to draw the line somewhere and for me a heavy, bulky balearic is that line. I Just Do Not like the feel at all.

For the large stone and side arm combo it's an excellent weapon though.


Hah, I will have to try harder to get some innuendo in next time!

I hadn't considered overarm throws actually, that's an interesting angle. I really like figure-8 but I will rarely use it with a balearic sling, usually saving it for paracord or thinner braided slings. Do you think this is a case of weight of the sling+ammo that is poorly suited to overarm throwing? I have considered it may also be gripping a release cord instead of knot- for some reason release cord grip+ overarm throw disagrees with me.
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Re: New Sling Innovations
Reply #24 - Dec 17th, 2020 at 9:12am
 
JudoP wrote on Dec 17th, 2020 at 6:54am:
Morphy wrote on Dec 16th, 2020 at 6:29pm:
Pretty much spot on with my views there JudoP. You just put it better than I would and with a lot less sexual innuendos.

However part of my bias may be that the Balearics especially seem to not work well at all with the Figure 8 or Apache styles. Two of my favorite styles. Well let me rephrase that... a dead possum could conceivably be used to sling a stone figure 8 but I have to draw the line somewhere and for me a heavy, bulky balearic is that line. I Just Do Not like the feel at all.

For the large stone and side arm combo it's an excellent weapon though.


Hah, I will have to try harder to get some innuendo in next time!

I hadn't considered overarm throws actually, that's an interesting angle. I really like figure-8 but I will rarely use it with a balearic sling, usually saving it for paracord or thinner braided slings. Do you think this is a case of weight of the sling+ammo that is poorly suited to overarm throwing? I have considered it may also be gripping a release cord instead of knot- for some reason release cord grip+ overarm throw disagrees with me.


That's one I personally don't have a hard theory on. Everytime Ive tried it it's been an immediate "oh poopy nope" then back to paracord or some thinner more supple cord. Maybe you're right.  The combo of thin supple cords and light weight sling seem to work well with figure-8. Maybe has to do with the muscle groups and movement being used? Who knows.

I used to use bare release cord but switched to tab years ago. The thing with a tab is it has to be made right for the best performance. I'm not a big fan of knots. Do you use them? Thought you used bare cord balearics?
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Kick
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Re: New Sling Innovations
Reply #25 - Dec 17th, 2020 at 11:40am
 
JudoP wrote on Dec 17th, 2020 at 6:54am:
I will have to try harder to get some innuendo in next time!

Hopefully it won't be too hard to stick it in.
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You are a great guy Kick but also slightly scary at times. - Morphy
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: New Sling Innovations
Reply #26 - Dec 17th, 2020 at 1:26pm
 
It really is quite baffling that there aren’t more members of the female persuasion on this forum
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“My final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!  Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!“  -Jesus the Noodler
 
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Re: New Sling Innovations
Reply #27 - Dec 17th, 2020 at 8:08pm
 
NooneOfConsequence wrote on Dec 17th, 2020 at 1:26pm:
It really is quite baffling that there aren’t more members of the female persuasion on this forum


Yeah, I mean between the extremely niche, combat-focused hobby, the relative scarcity of even male active slingers and the strange, frustrating, mild torture that is the first few weeks of learning to sling you'd think we'd have to beat them away with a stick hey.

Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy
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Re: New Sling Innovations
Reply #28 - Dec 18th, 2020 at 7:15am
 
Morphy wrote on Dec 17th, 2020 at 9:12am:
I used to use bare release cord but switched to tab years ago. The thing with a tab is it has to be made right for the best performance. I'm not a big fan of knots. Do you use them? Thought you used bare cord balearics?


I started off with knots and found them alright, the reason I moved on to bare cord is because I couldn't get a good balance between ease of grip and being too large. I never had an issue with release though, only when the knot was very heavy which is a problem I've had more with tabs than knots.

One of my first balearics was actually knot release and had a small split for little rocks. I used figure 8 quite a bit with that sling which is what leads me to think it might not be weight that is the full story. I've seen a couple of people use figure-8 in the balearics competition too. I was throwing smaller rocks though so it could well still be the weight.

Then I moved onto release cord, or a release cord with a strategically placed knot in it. Some more recent (thinner) slings I've made have a very minimalist tab with the cord also being gripped below it, which works quite nicely.
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AncientCraftwork
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Re: New Sling Innovations
Reply #29 - Dec 18th, 2020 at 7:18am
 
As long as the release cord releases cleanly from the hand the moment pressure on it is let go, it is fine. How ever this is achieved is between the person and his sling and it differs also between the materials used in construction
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