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George Floyd Riots (Read 8173 times)
JudoP
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Re: George Floyd Riots
Reply #45 - Jun 9th, 2020 at 2:13pm
 
Sarosh wrote on Jun 9th, 2020 at 11:05am:
please don't focus on property when people are murdered


I understand if this was directed at me. I forget things are so much more crazy over in the states. Here in the UK we have had relatively little violence, a lot of the discussion has revolved around statue defacement/pulling down which is culturally a big issue.

Honestly I don't see any quick fix to these issues around race and policing. Ceding more control to very politically leftist organisations like BLM* and Antifa (I say this as someone on the left!) in my opinion will achieve no real progress, but will certainly create immense popular backlash. It goes without saying we should root out and prosecute racists within the police, but honestly I think even if every single racist was removed, you would still have George Floyd like incidents simply due to black over-representation in crime leading to over-representation in police interaction (even for innocents). I'm not saying that that is an acceptable situation but it's unfortunately one we are in.

*As a very important note I specifically refer to the BLM organisation, not the movement as a whole
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Sarosh
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Re: George Floyd Riots
Reply #46 - Jun 9th, 2020 at 3:45pm
 
JudoP wrote on Jun 9th, 2020 at 2:13pm:
I understand if this was directed at me. I forget things are so much more crazy over in the states.

It's directed generally to people who are complaining about riots but keep silent about murder by cop or accept it as the norm. If there was no murder there would be no riots. Police leads by example, violence results to unrest. government can control the action of the police directly but not the unrest of its citizens. the unrest can be controlled indirectly. they should focus on what they control .

JudoP wrote on Jun 9th, 2020 at 2:13pm:
but honestly I think even if every single racist was removed, you would still have George Floyd like incidents simply due to black over-representation in crime leading to over-representation in police interaction (even for innocents)

that's a "chicken or the egg" argument.

face the problems one by one not all together. do not stagnate because the problem seems big or difficult. It needs to be solved because we have better things to do than get killed by someone who is supposed to protect us.



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Kick
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Re: George Floyd Riots
Reply #47 - Jun 9th, 2020 at 4:22pm
 
Sarosh wrote on Jun 9th, 2020 at 1:04pm:
If the state can't control the police how do you expect the policemen to control the rioters. Apply the existing laws on policemen and believe me protests will calm and riots will stop. first close the hole then get the water out of the boat.


I don't think I need to comment anymore. Exactly this. Police brutality at the protests against police brutality. Guess what? More protests. More anger. More people feeling powerless against a police system that seems to actively want them dead or silent about the deaths of others.
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You are a great guy Kick but also slightly scary at times. - Morphy
"Nothing matters, but itís perhaps more comfortable to keep calm and not interfere with other people." - H.P. Lovecraft, in a letter to Frank Belknap Long, 7 October, 1923
 
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JudoP
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Re: George Floyd Riots
Reply #48 - Jun 9th, 2020 at 6:11pm
 
Sarosh wrote on Jun 9th, 2020 at 3:45pm:
It's directed generally to people who are complaining about riots but keep silent about murder by cop or accept it as the norm. If there was no murder there would be no riots. Police leads by example, violence results to unrest. government can control the action of the police directly but not the unrest of its citizens. the unrest can be controlled indirectly. they should focus on what they control .


I get that but (a small number) of deaths by police is simply inevitable for all races, especially with guns being as prevalent as they are. How do you filter the racially motivated murder from simple statistical inevitability?

I agree that you shouldn't comment on riots without including the context. I find the riots understandable and empathise with rioters but I can't go as far as to endorse, both because I disagree with targeting innocent people and because it most likely doesn't advance the cause.

Sarosh wrote on Jun 9th, 2020 at 3:45pm:
that's a "chicken or the egg" argument.


I'm not advocating no action here. The police should be cleaned up as much as possible and that's an extremely reasonable request from protesters that pertains to basic human rights.
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: George Floyd Riots
Reply #49 - Jun 10th, 2020 at 12:43am
 
@Sarosh: Iím still looking for a centralized data source thatís easy to reference, but hereís a summary so far: By most counts, there are a little more than 1000 people killed by police each year on average.
Police are indicted in less than 1% of those killings... meaning about 10 cases per year are suspected as wrongful deaths (regardless of actual convictions).  The riots have still killed more people (19) in two weeks than police are merely accused of committing in an entire year (10-13).
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ďMy final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!† Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!ď† -Jesus the Noodler
 
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Sarosh
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Re: George Floyd Riots
Reply #50 - Jun 10th, 2020 at 3:45pm
 

https://www.facebook.com/juan.p.tornay/videos/10222280881469028/UzpfSTEzMjU2MzIw...

^try to measure attempted murders, assaults and laws broken on duty. seems like the police is the one that riots . they dont approach rioters only peaceful protesters. No one is held accountable, so if you dont do something about that it will happen again and again....

I dont know what they are spraying in US but they spray to the eyes, teargas is a war crime and there has been research for its use, the spray should be directed downwards because direct contact can cause permanent damage to the eyes , you can lose your eyes months after the event. Teargas effects the health of all the community if you breath air you should not like it.


@
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If you ever find sources I would like to take a look.

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Morphy
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Re: George Floyd Riots
Reply #51 - Jun 10th, 2020 at 4:46pm
 
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