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Targetry Discussion (Read 258 times)
woodssj
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Targetry Discussion
May 15th, 2018 at 8:06pm
 
All,

      This will be for the general discussion of Targetry, in a general sense: What we use, what we should use, and so forth.

     With the Balearic Target as the standard for current purposes, we're looking at types of target which might be better suited to research and how we would implement them.

     Let the Discussion begin!
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« Last Edit: May 16th, 2018 at 6:46pm by woodssj »  

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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: Targetry Discussion
Reply #1 - May 18th, 2018 at 7:58pm
 
I sort of posted this idea on Sarosh’s long-range vid topic, but it probably belongs here: there are tons of examples of automated object tracking algorithms. The simplest use a unique color like fluorescent orange, pink, or green. It would be really nice to set up an automatic shot tracker/scorer. That would make the data collection as simple as filming the sling session and adding some basic info about the sling, ammo, range, and weather.
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“My final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!  Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!“  -Jesus the Noodler
 
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woodssj
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Re: Targetry Discussion
Reply #2 - May 19th, 2018 at 10:32am
 
oooooh. That might also let us collect information on velocities and such, correct?
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Sarosh
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Re: Targetry Discussion
Reply #3 - May 19th, 2018 at 3:56pm
 
@NooneOfConsequence i wonder if that would work.
I suggest if you have the equipment to try it at different ranges.
at short range it will be possible but what about long ranges? then 720p compact camera will surely not be enough.
as for the velocities: i really wonder if the program will be capable of tracking a stone from the side (too blurry). if we need more than 30fps it gets expensive...

(30fps cameras are pretty good for calculating velocities manually)
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Re: Targetry Discussion
Reply #4 - May 19th, 2018 at 9:54pm
 
An iPhone will do 240fps these days, and so will a GoPro, but you can also get velocity from audio if the slinger gets a good whip crack at release and the target makes a nice loud thud.
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“My final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!  Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!“  -Jesus the Noodler
 
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Re: Targetry Discussion
Reply #5 - May 19th, 2018 at 10:01pm
 
Here’s an example of what a phone can do
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“My final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!  Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!“  -Jesus the Noodler
 
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Eudave
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Re: Targetry Discussion
Reply #6 - Apr 3rd, 2019 at 7:48pm
 
not sure about targets ,but with whistle ammo would it be possible to track Doppler shifts and calculate speed.
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Sarosh
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Re: Targetry Discussion
Reply #7 - Apr 4th, 2019 at 11:47am
 
@
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possible.
a phone camera is the easiest way to measure speed of a sling projectile
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Re: Targetry Discussion
Reply #8 - Dec 12th, 2020 at 2:49am
 
When I was younger (eons ago) there was a video parlour I frequented which had a punching machine. It could calculate the force of your punch from how hard you hit a pad. Maybe something like that could be done with a sling target?
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Sarosh
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Re: Targetry Discussion
Reply #9 - Dec 12th, 2020 at 8:02am
 
@
Kilisi

search "ballistic pendulum"
or watch joerg sprave do it with slingshots https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLxnNP-ycVQ
this can be done without cameras using a needle at the axis that will stay at maximum angle or displacement.
still a 30fps camera is the best way, you just get the measurement long after the shot.
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IronGoober
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Re: Targetry Discussion
Reply #10 - Dec 12th, 2020 at 11:32pm
 
NooneOfConsequence wrote on May 18th, 2018 at 7:58pm:
I sort of posted this idea on Sarosh’s long-range vid topic, but it probably belongs here: there are tons of examples of automated object tracking algorithms. The simplest use a unique color like fluorescent orange, pink, or green. It would be really nice to set up an automatic shot tracker/scorer. That would make the data collection as simple as filming the sling session and adding some basic info about the sling, ammo, range, and weather.


Do you have any freeware examples? like something that could work with ImageJ or similar software? I was looking for one and didn't find anything that seemed to work well. Lots of object tracking plugins, but none that seemed to do the trick (at least for trying to track a tennis ball from overhead, while in a sling).
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Re: Targetry Discussion
Reply #11 - Dec 13th, 2020 at 2:00am
 
Sarosh wrote on Dec 12th, 2020 at 8:02am:
ballistic pendulum

Thanks!... very interesting, I might have a go at making one for sling. I remember back in the video parlour it was very satisfying to punch the pad, I doubt it's as satisfying if we just did it with cameras.

I would not want to do it like the slingshot one. It's too bulky and ugly. A short pivoted lever going from the target to a load cell would be much better and give a digital read out. Or even have the load cell directly behind the target. The whole thing would be behind the square part of the target whatever it's called. No idea where I could get a load cell from over here though.
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« Last Edit: Dec 13th, 2020 at 4:52am by a »  
 
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Re: Targetry Discussion
Reply #12 - Dec 14th, 2020 at 7:18pm
 
IronGoober wrote on Dec 12th, 2020 at 11:32pm:
NooneOfConsequence wrote on May 18th, 2018 at 7:58pm:
I sort of posted this idea on Sarosh’s long-range vid topic, but it probably belongs here: there are tons of examples of automated object tracking algorithms. The simplest use a unique color like fluorescent orange, pink, or green. It would be really nice to set up an automatic shot tracker/scorer. That would make the data collection as simple as filming the sling session and adding some basic info about the sling, ammo, range, and weather.


Do you have any freeware examples? like something that could work with ImageJ or similar software? I was looking for one and didn't find anything that seemed to work well. Lots of object tracking plugins, but none that seemed to do the trick (at least for trying to track a tennis ball from overhead, while in a sling).


I’m pretty sure you can do it in Blender. If it were me, I would probably just write something in Python using the OpenCV library. Either way is free... and also a lot of work!
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“My final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!  Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!“  -Jesus the Noodler
 
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Re: Targetry Discussion
Reply #13 - Dec 14th, 2020 at 7:20pm
 
a wrote on Dec 13th, 2020 at 2:00am:
Sarosh wrote on Dec 12th, 2020 at 8:02am:
ballistic pendulum

Thanks!... very interesting, I might have a go at making one for sling. I remember back in the video parlour it was very satisfying to punch the pad, I doubt it's as satisfying if we just did it with cameras.

I would not want to do it like the slingshot one. It's too bulky and ugly. A short pivoted lever going from the target to a load cell would be much better and give a digital read out. Or even have the load cell directly behind the target. The whole thing would be behind the square part of the target whatever it's called. No idea where I could get a load cell from over here though.


This would work best with rusty balls where there is good energy transfer to the pendulum even when hit at odd angles.
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“My final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!  Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!“  -Jesus the Noodler
 
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IronGoober
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Re: Targetry Discussion
Reply #14 - Dec 14th, 2020 at 9:46pm
 
You might be able to do it cheaper with a variable resistor that rotates with the pendulum. You could use a Arduino/raspberry pi to provide a constant 5V through the resistor. Then you'd use some simple code to wait for a change then just read out the voltage min/max (depending on how the resistor changed) and have some other code to convert it to a force (via lookup table or just a multiplier) and then use a digital display to display the max value for some given amount of time before it resets.

I think that would work.?
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