Welcome, Guest. Please Login
SLINGING.ORG
 
Home Help Search Login


Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
Impact and damage. (Read 5173 times)
Curious Aardvark
Forum Moderation
*****
Offline


Taller than the average
Dwarf

Posts: 13965
Midlands England
Gender: male
Re: Impact and damage.
Reply #15 - Dec 15th, 2017 at 7:45am
 
if the target is a boar - then you need a boar spear or a rifle - NOT a sling.
Back to top
 

Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
jlasud
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Programming stones

Posts: 2358
Transilvania
Gender: male
Re: Impact and damage.
Reply #16 - Dec 19th, 2017 at 1:45pm
 
In reality, you can't have a too dense projectile for a sling. Osmium, which currently is the most dense metal known, would be optimal. however, it would be like 800 USD for a good gland. Affordable wise lead is the best option, which is definitely not that dense, to be a problem. Not even close. Osmium glans might just overpenetrate ,if they plow through only soft tissue.. but even that would be relatively rare.
Back to top
 

Respect existance or expect resistance!
 
IP Logged
 
yonderstone
Junior Member
**
Offline


The valiant never taste
of death but once.

Posts: 81
Oregon
Gender: male
Re: Impact and damage.
Reply #17 - Dec 21st, 2017 at 12:39am
 
Curious Aardvark wrote on Dec 15th, 2017 at 7:45am:
if the target is a boar - then you need a boar spear or a rifle - NOT a sling.


For best results I agree.. a shotgun and some kinds of handguns would work in a pinch.. slinging stones at swine is not advised even with the best aim and ammo.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
woodssj
Senior Member
****
Offline


That lake isn't going
to fill itself, y'know...

Posts: 302
'Round & about, Here and there
Gender: male
Re: Impact and damage.
Reply #18 - Dec 28th, 2017 at 9:37pm
 
Ouch. Sounds like a lot of rifle and pistol caliber debates I hear from friends in the Army. 9mm V .45ACP, 7.62x51mm V 5.56x45mm, and so on.

My argument would be to use the models to get a range that will put your shot through the ribs and intercostal musculature, because there's a good chance of causing a Pneumothorax and collapsed lung, but without the resistance of the skull factoring in as armor with angles and penetration, deflection, etc.

Slings, like many projectile weapons, kill primarily by Exsanguination and Shock, so going through the lungs and just past the half-way mark would likely be your best bet, due to collapsing the lung and damage to high-pressure, high-volume blood vessels.

Figure out the depth of penetration necessary to get this, and you'll have a formula for energy required of any diameter of projectile, after that, it's just balancing mass and speed over that threshold, though I am willing to say you'd need to set a minimum for each to achieve you goal. I'm willing to say that larger cavitation is going to be more deadly every time, and at the speeds a slingstone travels at, you'll need to have a wider projectile. They just aren't going fast enough to induce the kind of temporary shock-cavitation a rifle or modern pistol bullet induces.

So, with possible energy a sling can dispense, you could get to a really complex model here. If you set the range based on a Sling's possible power output, you could give a table of weights and diameters that are viable for such purposes. But, that seems a lot of effort for not a lot of gain. Historic models should give us what we're going to learn, and I bet we'll learn that Boars aren't something the Sling can take on effectively.

Also, don't hunt boars without a .450 Nitro Express, .357 magnum, a spear, and a sword. Those things are mean.

(Edited for horrid spelling and clarity)
Back to top
 

Confused Archaeologists are the best Archaeologists.
 
IP Logged
 
Mersa
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Druid

Posts: 2598
Australia
Gender: male
Re: Impact and damage.
Reply #19 - Dec 29th, 2017 at 2:28am
 
I have no doubt that a sling has enough power.
It's the other attributes that may make it less proficient in hunting. The boar was just an example I could have said duck or bear. My question is more to do with transfer of energy.
I can't say that a projectile needs to penetrate to do efficient damage. The answer I've received all have good points.
Back to top
 

Razor glandes, Aim for the eyes!!!
 
IP Logged
 
Morphy
Slinging.org Moderator
*****
Offline


Checkmate

Posts: 8102
Re: Impact and damage.
Reply #20 - Dec 29th, 2017 at 2:11pm
 
Someone needs to get a dead boar and try out some razor glandes on it. My money is on the sling. Blunt ammo I think would be a mistake.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Mersa
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline


Druid

Posts: 2598
Australia
Gender: male
Re: Impact and damage.
Reply #21 - Dec 29th, 2017 at 6:24pm
 
A nice point would help!!
Back to top
 

Razor glandes, Aim for the eyes!!!
 
IP Logged
 
Bill Skinner
past-moderator
****
Offline


Slinging Rocks!

Posts: 3292
Re: Impact and damage.
Reply #22 - Dec 29th, 2017 at 9:53pm
 
When I chased off momma pig with all her little ones, the little ones ranged from around 25-30 pounds, (10-15 kg) down to maybe 10 pounds (5 kg).  I have no doubt that an egg sized rock that connected anywhere on the smaller and on the head or shoulder area on the larger would have incapacitated it by breaking bones and possibly rupturing internal organs.

I didn't try it because I also figured that the little piggys' screams of pain would have also triggered an attack by momma pig and that I would have lost that fight.

Somehow, the thought of momma pig eating my guts was enough to make sure I didn't do anything particularly stupid. 

This time.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Teg
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline



Posts: 1113
Central Europe
Gender: male
Re: Impact and damage.
Reply #23 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 8:11am
 
This paper deals with your question. It compares different projectile sizes, densities etc.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28088089

The traumatic potential of a projectile shot from a sling.
Borovsky I, Lankovsky Z, Kalichman L, Belkin V.
Forensic Sci Int. 2017 Mar;272:10-15. doi: 10.1016/j.forsciint.2016.10.006. Epub 2016 Oct 26.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Shale
Junior Member
**
Offline



Posts: 77
Canada
Gender: male
Re: Impact and damage.
Reply #24 - Jan 10th, 2018 at 1:38pm
 
This is a great article Teg! Thanks for providing the link.
Back to top
 

Shale

As he that bindeth a stone in a sling, so is he that giveth honor to a fool. (Proverbs 26.8)
 
IP Logged
 
Curious Aardvark
Forum Moderation
*****
Offline


Taller than the average
Dwarf

Posts: 13965
Midlands England
Gender: male
Re: Impact and damage.
Reply #25 - Jan 15th, 2018 at 7:31am
 
bear in mind that with a glande shaped projectile, impact is just one aspect.

The missile will be spinning at a serious rpm - so you also get a substantial drilling effect as well.

One reason you get so many oval or 'rough' historical lead glandes. The rough edges help it drill and cause even more damage.

It's also one of the reasons battlefields yield so many glandes. The opposition didn't pick them up and sling them back because they drill themselves into the ground.

I've been about 6 feet away from  alead glande hitting glrund after about 250metres flight - heard it in flight, saw it land. Didn't have a shovel so zero chance of recovery. That thing buried itself deep !
Back to top
 

Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
IP Logged
 
AncientCraftwork
Interfector Viris Spurii
*****
Offline



Posts: 2403
Re: Impact and damage.
Reply #26 - Jan 16th, 2018 at 5:12am
 
I like to sling smooth 120-150 gram stones against an old brick wall from about 20 meters using balearic style with a balearic sling. The first time I did that I thought I would be able to recover my stones as I thought the stones would simply bounce.
Turns out they completely shatter on impact. Doesn't matter what mineral stone I've used.
The power of a sling is very much dependent on its user. I see many beginning slingers sling with the wrong form with sidearm style. They take their back foot too high off the ground. I believe Luis Livermore's form is the most powerful practical slinging form and I've become quite good at imitating that.
Back to top
 

All Glory to God forever and ever, amen
 
IP Logged
 
Morphy
Slinging.org Moderator
*****
Offline


Checkmate

Posts: 8102
Re: Impact and damage.
Reply #27 - Jan 16th, 2018 at 9:16am
 
LPL's style is the best combination of power, speed and accuracy I've ever seen. That's not to say it's the most accurate style ever, but as a combination of those three factors he's hard to beat.
Back to top
 
 
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 2 
Send Topic Print
(Moderators: vetryan15, Morphy, Curious Aardvark, joe_meadmaker, Rat Man, Kick, Chris)