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Split pouch retraction... (Read 2745 times)
Morphy
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Split pouch retraction...
Dec 23rd, 2016 at 5:34pm
 
...which is a funny sounding made up phrase I'm using to describe a split pouch pulling away from a sling stone at release.

Obviously not all split pouches. I'm specifically referring to those pouches which are spread out
to cradle the stone and therefore retract back to their normal shape upon release.

So here is the question- I've heard it suggested before that such a pouch offers a cleaner release because as the stone is about to leave, the pouch is pulling away from the stone.

My question to you guys is do you believe this offers a benefit?

I used to believe it probably offered some benefit. But now I question that initial assumption due to the fact that at release how long does it take a stone to move the requisite 1 mm off the pouch when the sling is traveling 100 mph? Does the pouch really have enough time to retract enough to offer any real benefit considering how fast the stone is leaving the sling pouch? What do you guys think?
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Bill Skinner
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Re: Split pouch retraction...
Reply #1 - Dec 23rd, 2016 at 6:44pm
 
I think it does.  The pouch causes spin as it releases.
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Re: Split pouch retraction...
Reply #2 - Dec 24th, 2016 at 4:40pm
 
Are you talking about split pouches like the aussie sling?
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Morphy
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Re: Split pouch retraction...
Reply #3 - Dec 24th, 2016 at 5:51pm
 
If you look at the latest sling Hubert posted on the Pictures of slings thread you notice it's sort of narrow in the pouch but with the split it can accommodate  large stones. Those are the types I'm talking about.
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walter
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Re: Split pouch retraction...
Reply #4 - Dec 24th, 2016 at 6:54pm
 
Don't think so. The retraction can't happen untill the projectile clears the pouch. I think short narrow pouches would give the cleanest release. Like short skinny splits and seat belt slings.
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Re: Split pouch retraction...
Reply #5 - Dec 25th, 2016 at 7:18am
 
I'm with Walter. The less contact with the stone the better. I used to have a fairly cupped pouch but I found I snagged on the release a lot. Especially with fig8. So I use flat pouches with splits mostly.
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Re: Split pouch retraction...
Reply #6 - Dec 25th, 2016 at 11:33am
 
Well, I'm not sure I'd call it a retraction, but the easier the stone laves the pouch the better, as far as I understand it.
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Jaegoor
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Re: Split pouch retraction...
Reply #7 - Dec 26th, 2016 at 5:16am
 
Der Vorteil eines geteilten Briefes ist ein anderer. Ein geschlossener Beutel wird durch denn Stein gewölbt, ausgebeult. Je länger die Schleuder im Gebrauch ist, umso stärker wird diese wölbung. Sie umhüllt schließlich denn Stein. Mit einer sehr negativen Folge.  Der Stein kann sich nicht mehr richtig lösen  und verlässt zu spät die Schleuder. Im schlimmsten Fall öffnet sich der Beutel gar nicht. Das passiert häufig bei sehr langen Schleudern. Es ist daher sinnlos einen Beutel künstlich zu wölben.
Möchten sie trotzdem einen geschlossenen Beutel verwenden, so sollte dieser sehr schmal sein. Der verwendete Stein sollte deutlich größer als der Beutel sein. Allerdings hat auch dieser Beutel einen Nachteil. Der Stein hat nur eine geringe seitenstabilität im Flug. Dies wird deutlich, wenn sehr kraftvoll geschossen wird. Die Schleuder kann nicht die volle Power auf denn Stein übertragen. Das ist auf dauer sehr ungesund. Oft führt es zu Verletzungen an Finger oder im schlimmsten Fall, an Handgelenk und Schulter.
Ein geteilter Beutel verformt sich nicht. Die seitenstabilität ist deutlich besser.
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Morphy
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Re: Split pouch retraction...
Reply #8 - Dec 26th, 2016 at 7:44am
 
I think some people are referencing something different. This is one of those concepts that is easy to understand with visuals but a little more difficult with words. 

If you get a narrow split pouch that has to be spread open to accommodate a stone, just open the split like you would normally to position the stone in it and let go of it and watch it close back to its original width. That's what I'm getting at.

This motion doesn't occur with normal pouches but does with those narrow split. So does the pouch actually narrowing back to the original width cause a cleaner release?

I agree with Walter. But I don't know for sure.
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Morphy
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Re: Split pouch retraction...
Reply #9 - Dec 26th, 2016 at 9:01am
 
Jaegoor's post-

Re: Split pouch retraction ...
Reply # 7 - Today at 5:16 am Alertboard Moderator about this Post! Mark & ​​Quote Quote The advantage of a shared letter is different. A closed bag is arched by stone, bulging. The longer the slingshot is in use, the stronger the curvature. She finally envelops stone. With a very negative result. The stone can not come off properly and leaves the sling too late. In the worst case, the bag does not open. This often happens with very long spins. It is therefore pointless to artificially buckle a bag.
If you still want to use a closed bag, it should be very narrow. The stone used should be significantly larger than the bag. However, this bag also has a drawback. The stone has little side stability in flight. This is clear when very powerful shot. The slingshot can not transfer the full power to the stone. This is very unhealthy for a long time. Often it leads to injuries to fingers or, in the worst case, to wrist and shoulder.
A split pouch does not deform. Site stability is much better.
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Re: Split pouch retraction...
Reply #10 - Dec 26th, 2016 at 9:18am
 
if the pouch is pulling away from the stone then it will impart less spin not more.
I'll completely disagree with jaegoor on shaped leather pouches, if they cup the ammo and don't release you haven't made the sling right.

As far as a heavy stiff braided sling goes, over time they WILL deform if not stored correctly.
Balearic type slings need to be stored hanging straight when not in use, otherwise the fibres set in the shape they are stored in and the sling needs to be heated and straightened.

As to the original question, no. if a pouch is narrowing at the point of release it's actually moving into the stone and maintaining contact as long as possible, rather than away from it.  This will impart spin and give you control of the stone as long as possible.

But having watched numerous balearic slingers have stones go through their pouches, and out sideways during windup.
I will never trust or use a split pouch sling.

The ones I have are purely for showing people diefferent sling typoes - and in the case of the one I bought from louis, making pistol cracks and making people jump Smiley
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Jaegoor
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Re: Split pouch retraction...
Reply #11 - Dec 28th, 2016 at 6:18am
 
Dazu wäre sehr viel zu sagen. Ich möchte auch nicht überzeugen. Halten wir uns an Fakten. Es gibt einen nordischen Typ der Schleuder . Dazu gehören Funde aus Ribe , Haithabu, Schleswig,  Groß Rathen und verschiedene Funde aus Schweden . Alle haben etwas gemeinsam. Ihre Beutel sind mehrfach geschlitzt. Warum schlitzt man einen Beutel aus Leder? Alle Tests sind eindeutig. Sie beulen weniger aus. Interessant oder ?
Ja es stimmt. Eine Schleuder bedarf besonderer Pflege. Besonders balearische . Sie hängen lassen, ist eine sehr gute Lagerung.  Ich selbst mag balearische schleudern sehr. Aber ich mag nicht ihr  Material . Es reagiert sehr stark auf Umwelt. Zum Beispiel luftfeuchtig.  Ich selbst verwende Hanf  für meine balearic Slings. Damit es nicht auf Wasser reagiert, verwende ich wax.  Es funktioniert sehr gut.
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Re: Split pouch retraction...
Reply #12 - Dec 28th, 2016 at 8:50am
 
Google Translate provides the following translation for Joegoor's post (Reply #11)

That would be very much to say. I also do not want to convince. Let us stick to facts. There is a Nordic type of sling. These include finds from Ribe, Haithabu, Schleswig, Großrathen and various finds from Sweden. Everyone has something in common. Your bags are slit several times. Why do you slit a leather bag? All tests are clear. They bully less. Interesting or?
Yes it's right. A sling requires special care. Especially balearic. They hang, is a very good storage. I myself like balearic fling very much. But I do not like their material. It reacts very strongly to the environment. For example air-moist. I myself use hemp for my balearic slings. So that it does not react to water, I use wax. It works very well.
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Morphy
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Re: Split pouch retraction...
Reply #13 - Dec 28th, 2016 at 9:19am
 
My experience has been different than yours Jaegoor. But I use Apache style slings mostly. The paracord stiched around the edges reinforces the leather and even if the stones were going to bulge out the leather (which I've not seen to be honest) the paracord resists any changes. I've worn completely through the leather (lower left quadrant) on 3 different slings without ever seeing any change in the smoothness of the release.
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