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Vegetius (and Virgil) on sling material: linen or wool (wool best) (Read 21165 times)

Archaic Arms Funditor Offline Testing and inventing "Archaic" weapons. Posts: 733	Re: Vegetius (and Virgil) on sling material: linen or wool (wool best) Reply #45 - Apr 4^th, 2020 at 12:02am I was thinking that perhaps Vegetius was referring to something like horse hair rather than wool. Horse hair would be quite durable I imagine, wouldn't absorb rain, would have a lot less elasticity + long fibres, and wouldn't be hard on the hands.
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TOMBELAINE

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Re: Vegetius (and Virgil) on sling material: linen or wool (wool best)
Reply #46 - Apr 5^th, 2020 at 5:40am

It's possible, Way of the Sling.
Two possibilities.
1) Another technic to throw with an "more or less elastic" sling. Why not ?
2) Another hair of animal. In this case, I don't think horse because a horse is expensive, not for shepperd. But goat.
Why ? Because, people made rope with hair of goat, like this link in french
https://books.google.fr/books?id=c03K6_WOhOIC&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=corde+en+poil+
de+ch%C3%A8vre&source=bl&ots=VtjHqVkYHo&sig=ACfU3U0p1a2X2PThSXC0q7ORoRtNOEDEcw&h
l=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiVuqSKts7oAhWHlhQKHb9rBcUQ6AEwDXoECAsQNQ#v=onepage&q=corde%
20en%20poil%20de%20ch%C3%A8vre&f=false
A very good postcard page 43

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Re: Vegetius (and Virgil) on sling material: linen or wool (wool best)
Reply #47 - Apr 5^th, 2020 at 12:21pm

I have done a reasonable amount of slinging with semi-stretched wool slings, and even though they are still slightly elastic, there is a 'wall' that they don't stretch past. Thus with 'heavy' stones, the 'light' elasticity doesn't seem to be an issue.
I know horse hair is expensive in today's world in part because of the high demand for it in the music industry, but was it also expensive in the ancient world? Even if it was, I suppose the material that "is best" isn't always cheap.

Regards,
Lewis

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Caldou Funditor Offline Moving the world... rock by rock. Posts: 779 Picardie, France	Re: Vegetius (and Virgil) on sling material: linen or wool (wool best) Reply #48 - Apr 5^th, 2020 at 5:18pm I can't remember who tried making a horse hair sling / cord (Teg, maybe ? ) but I can remember the comment : it's a real pain to work with !
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Re: Vegetius (and Virgil) on sling material: linen or wool (wool best)
Reply #49 - Apr 6^th, 2020 at 7:19am

In the link I note, there is this passage :
"the goat provides its hairs for the navy, for the war machines and for the potter's turn" said Varron at the 1er century before Christ.
If I can find hair of goat, It is possible I try but it is not sure.
Do members know (or use) rope made with hairs of goat ?

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Re: Vegetius (and Virgil) on sling material: linen or wool (wool best)
Reply #50 - Apr 6^th, 2020 at 9:28am

Caldou wrote on Apr 5^th, 2020 at 5:18pm:

I can't remember who tried making a horse hair sling / cord (Teg, maybe ? ) but I can remember the comment : it's a real pain to work with !

I never made a full sling out of horse hair. I occasionally use it to reinforce things like mixed fiber/horse hair braids for crackers.

Pikaru once made a sling out of horse hair:
http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1172017416/4095

Other than that I've seen movies of gauchos making rope out of horse hair.

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Re: Vegetius (and Virgil) on sling material: linen or wool (wool best)
Reply #51 - Apr 23^rd, 2020 at 6:39am

A french link translated of "history of Ovide". In an old french, it's funny.
For an abstract, Ovide said that, with hair of horse and goat, people made protects for soldiers. Like Middle-Age, to do padding jacket.

https://books.google.fr/books?id=HTcpdsgKg2wC&pg=PA42&lpg=PA42&dq=gr%C3%A8ce+ant
ique+%2B+poils+de+ch%C3%A8vre&source=bl&ots=k-uUMvJHdB&sig=ACfU3U1OoTYRHnUyAxPmc
On90asCSzIUow&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjt26uy993oAhWG2BQKHaA-DuI4ChDoATAFegQIDBA6#v
=onepage&q=gr%C3%A8ce%20antique%20%20%20poils%20de%20ch%C3%A8vre&f=false

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Re: Vegetius (and Virgil) on sling material: linen or wool (wool best)
Reply #52 - May 19^th, 2020 at 5:22pm

Finally found the solution to wool's extensive elasticity: https://www.nature.com/articles/124948b0

Recently tried it on one of my wool slings, and it does indeed remove all perceivable elasticity!
Unlike my previous method of wet stretching, when wool is steamed under tension, it will not return to it's original elastic state.
I have recently been experimenting to see whether sling elasticity is really an issue, and while I didn't really see any noticeable decrease in power, I did notice it is much more difficult to be accurate. Perhaps because different weight stones will cause the sling to stretch to slightly different lengths on release? Just a thought.

Could this be the 'key' to making wool 'best'?
Would love to hear your thoughts.

« Last Edit: May 24^th, 2020 at 8:35pm by Archaic Arms »

Regards,
Lewis

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Re: Vegetius (and Virgil) on sling material: linen or wool (wool best)
Reply #53 - May 26^th, 2020 at 6:22am

I think : it's possible but it seems complicated for a simple sling.
After your interesting search, the problem becomes :
- is there a throwing tecnic to take advantage of the elasticity ?
- big slingstones or very short sling ?
- hair of others animals ?

I have searched on Internet for others animals.
Corsica is an island in France and in the local language, a rope (tyed and flat) in goat hair is : funa !!!

Fona is a sling in balearic island !!!

Today, I think Sae Tae is probably hair of goats.

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Re: Vegetius (and Virgil) on sling material: linen or wool (wool best)
Reply #54 - Aug 24^th, 2020 at 9:32am

Hello,
This summer, I contacted Corsican language reps. Here are taken from a book of mr Morati two pages about rural life in Corsica yesterday.

With hair goat, two types of ropes : 1 braided like a braid hair and 2 twisted.
The words in Corsican are SETINA and SETINU. Like Saetae !

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TOMBELAINE Funditor Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 814 france Gender:	Re: Vegetius (and Virgil) on sling material: linen or wool (wool best) Reply #55 - Aug 24^th, 2020 at 10:35am Sorry, a bug in my head A braided like breaded hair is FUNA, SETINA is for wild boar, pig and else for others animals like horses, SETINU is for twisted rope with hair goat.
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Thearos Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Take that Posts: 3417	Re: Vegetius (and Virgil) on sling material: linen or wool (wool best) Reply #56 - Sep 1^st, 2020 at 10:50am Setinu sounds exactly like the ancient material. BTW "Funa", prob. rope but might be a local variant on "fionda", "funda"= sling ?
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Re: Vegetius (and Virgil) on sling material: linen or wool (wool best)
Reply #57 - Sep 1^st, 2020 at 11:35am

Difficult question. I think like you. But I am not a lingist.
Fona / funda / funa : sling or rope ? It's tempting.
"Fun" is thread in celtic. I'm not sure but I read that, a few monthes ago.
For exemples, fona is sling in balearic Island. Frombula (or sfrombula) is sling in Corsican.
Huh

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Archaic Arms Funditor Offline Testing and inventing "Archaic" weapons. Posts: 733	Re: Vegetius (and Virgil) on sling material: linen or wool (wool best) Reply #58 - Sep 1^st, 2020 at 3:06pm Great discoveries on the wool front! I feel that they would probably chose the thickest, longest hairs available, as they are the most durable (against abrasion and whip-crack), as well as ease of braiding. This leads me to think in terms of hair from tails or manes.
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Re: Vegetius (and Virgil) on sling material: linen or wool (wool best)
Reply #59 - Nov 9^th, 2020 at 5:18pm

My first sling and only sling for years was wool. But not braided. It was a strip I used as a scarf for years cut from a swanndri (heavy bush shirt) before I ever tried throwing something with it.

I didn't think about it at the time, but probably a good material because it was preshrunk and had been used for years in all weather. More like felt than wool.

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