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Ponerology (Read 8570 times)
Ajax
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Re: Ponerology
Reply #15 - Jul 21st, 2014 at 6:08pm
 
Curious aardvark brings up an intresting thought, that the person may not be evil but the deeds are.
I believe that the two can not be seperated that you are to be held to account for everything you do both good and bad, that you reap what you sow.factory farming is evil, people choose to farm that way because it is most cost efficent in the short term and they do not consider the welfare of the animal; i know it is doubly evil in that the farmer knows that there are better methods that produce a better product and a much happier animal and he just dont care.that makes him evil by the decisions he makes and the actions he takes.
As to the rest of the world not careing i agree, most people are so caught up in just getting by or surviveing thier own idiocy or that of others they have very little room to think of animal cruelty or psychopathay at all.   
Reap what you sow.
I am re reading the wheel of time series, bloody good yarn Smiley
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"Do what thou will"Shall be the whole of the law."love is the law, love under will"
 
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algorias
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Re: Ponerology
Reply #16 - Jul 22nd, 2014 at 2:17am
 
Well, if factory farming is evil, and evil deeds imply evil people, then all the people who support factory farms by buying their meat are evil. Do you really believe that? I think life is not that simple; there are many subtle ways in which we are coerced towards conformity in such matters. And I say that believing that individual action on a mass scale will be required to stop such evil practices.


Ajax wrote on Jul 20th, 2014 at 7:31pm:
sorry algorias but i disagree with you i think that they are all evil; how can they not be?
They are geniticaly predisposed to do harm to others in order to survive and thrive.


As others have pointed out, psychopathy is a lack of empathy, nothing more. You are implicitly stating that morality can only come from empathy towards other people. I think that it can also arise from a more abstract desire to do good, stemming from spirituality, religion and other ethical frameworks such as humanism and utilitarism.
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Ajax
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Re: Ponerology
Reply #17 - Jul 22nd, 2014 at 9:02pm
 
Algorias,the author suggests that it so much more than just a lack of empathy,there is also a lack of social and ethical morals, a sense of entitlement to that which they dont have, usally they can be very charming and are also great mimics.As i said i havent finished the book yet but that much i have got out of it. I am implicty stating that morality is merely a convention made up by society at the time of its exsistance and over time as this group changes so does its morality.
An example from my own country was when i was going to school, the use of the cane and strap was acceptable to use on children as punishment,now however society has decreed that that is unacceptable and so it has changed. Another example of fluid morality is the allowance of the same sex to marry, however in the eighties beig gay was a crime punishable with prison! and for the record i have no problem with people being gay, its just a good example. There is nothing abstract about doing good it is as real as breathing and endures and does indeed have a basis in spirituality.
The world around us constantly bears this truth out, doing good will never be out fashion,and it obeys a different set of laws other than mans. but men may still persecute you for it, evil suceeds when good men do nothing.
I alo read Bernard Cornwall, Good adventure writer. Smiley
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Ajax
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Re: Ponerology
Reply #18 - Sep 10th, 2014 at 8:38pm
 
This is why gaza exisits, ponerology, know your enemy Angry
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Re: Ponerology
Reply #19 - Sep 16th, 2014 at 8:08am
 
There is evil in all of us, all it needs is the right circumstances to rear its ugly head.

Unfortunately, the line between good and evil is wide, blurry and hard to see depending on your viewpoint.

Occasionally, evil must be identified, hunted down and eliminated. Our herd is large and needs culling from time to time.

The problem will always be, who decides what is evil?

(I'm a big fan of Randi as well)
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Ajax
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Re: Ponerology
Reply #20 - Sep 16th, 2014 at 8:40pm
 
Exactly, who decides what is evil? by what criteria do we messure it? does it change with time and social convention or is there a universal standard?
Is it intelligent, can it learn?
Does it exist outside of humanity?
I have finished the book, and now have a greater understanding of this subject, although i am by no means an expert.
The above questions may seem out of place when we discuss evil, all i can say is read the book and decide for yourself.

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Mark-Harrop
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Re: Ponerology
Reply #21 - Sep 18th, 2014 at 3:23am
 
Evil is a fluid cultural phenomenon.

There are some common threads like violence against children, but even murder can be easily justified when painted with the brush of patriotism, nationalism etc. to the extent that genocide can be accepted by people who don't consider themselves evil.

Torture can be considered evil, but even religious institutions have used in in pursuit of the greater good.

In the struggle between good and evil, righteousness is usually the catalyst.
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Ajax
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Re: Ponerology
Reply #22 - Sep 18th, 2014 at 6:35pm
 
Nope, after finishing this book, i have to say that all current methods of describing evil are inaccurate in that they dont go far enough in thier examination of the facts, or are limited by the viewers perception.
Evil has a life of its own.
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Re: Ponerology
Reply #23 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 2:50am
 
Mark-Harrop wrote on Sep 18th, 2014 at 3:23am:
Evil is a fluid cultural phenomenon.

There are some common threads like violence against children, but even murder can be easily justified when painted with the brush of patriotism, nationalism etc. to the extent that genocide can be accepted by people who don't consider themselves evil.

Torture can be considered evil, but even religious institutions have used in in pursuit of the greater good.

In the struggle between good and evil, righteousness is usually the catalyst.


I would agree. Self proclaimed righteousness is always the catalyst. IMHO false confidence masking a lack of self-worth the driver, and personal empowerment through the oppression of others the goal.

Social morality changes depending upon the predominant view of that society, yet within us all we instinctively know when we are doing right or wrong. We often try to justify our actions as we struggle to accept what we know to be true, but that doesn't make some action less evil.

Religion takes spiritual truths and seeks to formalise and  control them. In doing so it becomes the agent of evil. This is why the bible "says don't worship false idols".

Heaven and Hell are not otherworld realms. They are here on earth within each of our heart's. Live true to your morality, fight your personal fight against the temptation to slip into evil ways, and the world will feel like heaven. You will find the inner peace and tranquility that is robbed from us in our everyday lives.

Surrender to evil, hurt another at work simply to gain advancement, become the ferocious dog in a dog eat dog world, and the world will appear like hell to you. A constant battle against an unlimited foe. Always alone. Even in love.

The constant battle between Good and Evil is not fought with armies on the battlefields of the world. It is fought by each of us. Every minute of everyday. In our own hearts.
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Re: Ponerology
Reply #24 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 9:27am
 
I spend a lot of time on the Yahoo Answers site, and one of the sections is titled "philosophy".  Now, it's true that most of the questions are really, seriously awful, and few have anything to do with actual philosophy....
But the question of "good" and "evil" comes up a lot.

My position is that these are essentially value judgements on human activities.  Both require volition.   We don't think of hurricanes and earthquakes as "evil", just tragic if there's a loss of life.

It's clear that absolutes are hard to come by.   We think of people like mass murderers or serial killers as evil, but both are mitigated by forms of insanity... Either temporary "melt down" in the case of most mass killers or deep-seated powerful compulsions in the case of serial killers.

One can argue that the most-evil acts known, genocides and such, are motivated and perpetrated by ordinary people who have been convinced that their horrific actions are not evil....That the people being exterminated are evil and thus the extermination is "good"....
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Re: Ponerology
Reply #25 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 12:25pm
 
Or that the people are inferior and the world will be better off without them. 

Or that these people need to die to advance the pursuit of knowledge and science.

Keep in mind that for thousands of years, it was thought right and proper to kill your enemies after they surrendered and to sell their women and children as slaves.
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Re: Ponerology
Reply #26 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 3:47pm
 
Quote:
I am re reading the wheel of time series, bloody good yarn Smiley

I have to admit I got seriously bored at about book 8 - basically for the last two books the plot had advanced not one jot !
I think my dad managed to get to the end of book 10 and gave up.

Quote:
Keep in mind that for thousands of years, it was thought right and proper to kill your enemies after they surrendered and to sell their women and children as slaves.

Exactly what islamic state do now.
And no doubt may other terrorists the world over.
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Do All things with Honour and Generosity: Regret Nothing, Envy None, Apologise Seldom and Bow your head to No One  - works for me Smiley
 
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Re: Ponerology
Reply #27 - Sep 19th, 2014 at 5:13pm
 
Bill Skinner wrote on Sep 19th, 2014 at 12:25pm:
Or that the people are inferior and the world will be better off without them. 

Or that these people need to die to advance the pursuit of knowledge and science.

Keep in mind that for thousands of years, it was thought right and proper to kill your enemies after they surrendered and to sell their women and children as slaves.


Kinda what I was on about. As soon as someones spirituality gets gift wrapped by ceremony or organised religion; or someones political aims become driven by power over the masses, not empowering the masses; or someones definition of success ceases to be learning and becomes satisfying material yearnings; evil thrives.

Ajax wrote on Sep 18th, 2014 at 6:35pm:
Nope, after finishing this book, i have to say that all current methods of describing evil are inaccurate in that they dont go far enough in thier examination of the facts, or are limited by the viewers perception.
Evil has a life of its own.


The only life that evil has is cultural fashion. The sheep always follow the shepherd. The wolf always lives free.
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Re: Ponerology
Reply #28 - Sep 21st, 2014 at 2:24am
 
"There is even some suggestion that they are a different species!"

Okay.  No.  Negative.  Gigantic red flag.  I know things in psychology and pertaining fields are always changing and that's not my area of interest so I'm not going to call anything else (not even counting the 'nature of evil' stuff, which is sketchy if your book is going for 'science'), but if the author has such a grasp (read: no grasp at all) on the basic concept of 'species', then you probably should not be trusting him to educate you about personality disorders...

Yes, I've met borderline personalities.  I can all but assure you that you have, as well.

If you are looking for a good starter on dangerous 'psychopaths' I recommend Mind Hunter by John Douglass.  It's older now, but holds up well as it is no armchair idle speculation.  Easy to find, too, there's almost always a copy at the local used bookstore.
http://www.amazon.com/Mind-Hunter-Inside-Elite-Serial/dp/0671528904
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« Last Edit: Sep 25th, 2014 at 6:25pm by Eoraptor »  

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Ajax
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Re: Ponerology
Reply #29 - Sep 21st, 2014 at 8:35am
 
The name of the book is political ponerology by Andrew m Lobaczewski.Published by red pill press.
Anyone who reads it will not be wasting their time.
The communists vatican and d Zbigniew Brzezinski stopped its puplication.
In my humble opinion it should be required reading in schools and law enforcement.
NOT FOR THE FAINT HEARTED OR EASILY SCARED Smiley
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