I must say, the concept of the "straight throw at an angle to achieve distance" is starting to defy logic. It's a lob, only far out, so you've started to ramp up power. You can't shoot straight out to 100 m.

I think you never actually grasped what we've been saying about lobbing. The points of my and Thearos's posts on lobbing have been to show you that "a shot that is purposely underpowered to achieve a higher arc" is not a lob. Again, a lob is a throw that accounts for bullet drop. Not a short range throw pointing high so it will drop more, and not a short range throw that is softly tossed. A lob is a shot that has been thrown at the most effective speed that the slinger can produce and is allowed to drop, instead of the slinger pushing themself past that to make the throw faster and flatter when slinging at longer distances.

Now, throwing with everything you've got is not efficient and is not a good idea. If you do that, dial it back slightly and your accuracy will improve because your technique will improve. This may be the source of confusion.
Rat Man wrote on Nov 26^th, 2013 at 8:24pm:


Letting a stone fly long enough and slow down enough to start dropping will not have a noticeable effect on the terminal ballistics as long as it doesn't skip off the target at a shallow angle. This is because momentum is what determines terminal ballistics. If KE did, then slowing down over a long distance or being slow enough to noticeably drop WOULD be a bad thing. It just isn't in real life. Just to reiterate what I've said about KE vs Momentum, as well.

Point blank -by definition- is the distance at which a shot will not miss because of wind, drop, etc, after it has left the weapon. They only way you can miss the target with a sling at point blank range is with a botched throw. Equivalent to a mechanical failure in other weapons. At point blank range neither a lobber nor a flat-liner (better than whanging, Dan?) will notice drop. It is past this that the difference becomes noticeable. So, point blank can be 20 meters.

What I'm getting out of this is that you and Dan both lob at medium-long distance and you haven't noticed yet that your accuracy has plateaued at short distances. If you aren't actually lobbing all along.

Masiakasaurus wrote on Nov 26^th, 2013 at 8:19pm:


Masiakasaurus wrote on Nov 26^th, 2013 at 8:19pm:


These two statements contradict each other. If dialing back to achieve accuracy, your speed will drop producing a lob. as seen in the videos you guys have referenced.

second, I don't know what would lead you to believe that your accuracy and form will increase by "dialing it back." All of the video evidence that I have seen strongly suggests a direct correlation between strong hard slinging and an increase in accuracy. as well as achieving high levels of accuracy myself. all of the most accurate slingers I have seen, have NOT lobbed.

Masiakasaurus wrote on Nov 26^th, 2013 at 8:19pm:


I'm not quite sure what your getting at by a "accuracy plateau"? Is this in context of not being able to achieve any better accuracy, at x distance.? If so, I would disagree. I would argue that there is no accuracy plateau, and that the rock only flies where you make it fly. I am shooting at a target that is 1.5 foot sq. with a bulls eye that is 3 inches in diameter. and an outer ring that is 8 inches in diameter. With hard fast slinging my accuracy improves by the day.       

Edit: I replied before E_M, saying "keep slinging" and deleted it while trying to edit on my stupid phone.
English_Marauder wrote on Nov 26^th, 2013 at 9:21pm:

Yep, you haven't reached a plateau yet. Keep slinging and you'll see what I mean. Your accuracy at all distances will cease improving and if you're smart you'll wonder why you aren't as good as you want to be. If you want to develop your skills past that point, lob, and you'll break through the ceiling.
English_Marauder wrote on Nov 26^th, 2013 at 10:37pm:

Not online. See here for why I'm not uploading anything else to YouTube.

Why should I? You've already brushed off arguments that don't fit your opinion rather than trying to refute them. What would a video of my lobbing accomplish that Jaegoor's hasn't? What's better proof than someone having both the accuracy and power to get a confirmed kill on medium game? You'll come over to my side when you experience what Thearos and I have told you.

Masiakasaurus wrote on Nov 26^th, 2013 at 11:11pm:


Alright, no need to get nasty now.  EM is one of the most accurate I've ever seen, and most of the others are also flat-liners. I have lobbed before, You can't just assume ignorance on the other party for their disagreement with you. I didn't like it, so I went back to straight throwing.

This has been a really fast moving thread so I may have missed a few posts. What arguments haven't we refuted?

Yes, it's been a very good thread, largely due to Masia.'s civility and care. Much to ponder.

Mr Marauder is obviously very strong and accurate. Hence his slinging is high-performance at point-blank ranges, which are sufficient for target purposes. Masia's idea, that this actually represents a plateau, and there is a further stage of growth, is  radical and eye-opening. Mr Marauder is also combative and competitive, so refuses advice, as not applicable to him, and flat out wrong. Others might want to think about it.

"Whanging" describes not just the flat traj, but also the full on, 110% power all the time shots.

Which is how this all started: when I pointed out that modern competitors in the Baleares lobbed, when outside the point-blank envelope, with good reason, and without somehow "betraying the sling".

Very good thread guys.

No harsh feelings.