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Figure eight vs helicopter based styles (Read 5527 times)
J
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Re: Figure eight vs helicopter based styles
Reply #30 - Jul 19th, 2021 at 11:55am
 
I can not vouch figure 8 being bad for heavy rocks. I slung + 50, 200-300 gram rocks with my sling yesterday with a lot of power and didn't feel any soreness and the distance was greater than slung with sidearm. In fact with my light sling it felt like the only right style suited for this rock and sling. aside from Greek. Figure 8 gives a perfect spiral spin on the rocks every time. Even when slinging square brick rubble.  I did feel some soreness after rocks that were too light. Because there was not enough resistance to pull against, that's why I don't like short to medium slings and sub 100 g rocks. Those type of rocks need a long sling to shine imo.

I see it like this -- thin slings, that rely mostly on tension for pouch orientation - use figure 8 or Greek/Byzantine
thicks slings -- more suitable for rotation styles like Balearic and Helicopter and a narrow grip. Because styles that rotate the sling a few times prior to the powerstroke require more than just tension alone to control the pouch orientation. They need some stiffness imo. At least for a consistent orientation control.
But for figure 8 tension (and a wide grip) is plenty sufficient, but there is a smaller  limit to the length of the sling that is possible with figure 8 because it's a vertical style.

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J
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Re: Figure eight vs helicopter based styles
Reply #31 - Jul 19th, 2021 at 12:09pm
 
The only reason imo its often stated to use thick slings for heavy rocks is because that slinger likes to use sling rotations prior to the powerstroke. When I use heavy stone with my thin 2mm slings and Balearic style more often than not the cords will twist at least to some degree on the second rotation or more. The release then starts to feel really bad and erratic.
While a heavier and or stiffer sling will not twist like this and give consistent pouch angle control with Balearic w heavy rocks

The question then arises for me. Is it really worth opting for a thicker and stiffer sling solely to use static rotations before the powerstroke, as is the case with balearic?
I am really starting to think it is not. The benefit of thin slings are very great. And now I can sling them big rocks, even the worst type of rubble, 250+ grams in a sub 10 gram sling with a perfect spiral every time, by using figure 8. That's pretty amazing I think. Previously I still had a place for thicker slings with heavy rocks but now that's also gone for me.
Everyones free to sling as they please of course.  Smiley I found a new favorite method for myself. It felt so good to get that level of consistency with heavy rocks and such a simple, thin, floppy sling. Slinging 200 g rocks becomes near effortless with this style and sling, and the velocity is high up there too. This backcountry style is my new favorite for sure. Time for a new video?
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J
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Re: Figure eight vs helicopter based styles
Reply #32 - Jul 19th, 2021 at 12:25pm
 
Quote:
Another point is the release type. Maybe it's just familiarity but I've never felt comfortable with figure 8 and a full hand release. A knot seems much better for that style


This has to do with the grip style for me. Narrow grio = full hand release. Wide grip = tab or knot
A wide grip doesn't feel great with a full hand release cord because it bends the release cord around in the hand. This bend interferes with the release of the cord from the hand I believe due to the bend. While with a narrow grip the release cord stays straight in the hand and this means its releases easier out from the releasing hand.

Either way a thin sling needs a tab or knot, because the cord becomes too thin to hold on to

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Thearos
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Re: Figure eight vs helicopter based styles
Reply #33 - Jul 20th, 2021 at 4:36am
 
I find classic helo.(overhead rotations, then downwards slashing release) OK with left-right alignment, but often shoots high, so that I dial it down and end up lobbing (which some people here consider cheating). With sidearm, I can get a good flat trajectory, often at the right hight, but the challenge is of course left-right alignment. I also have a problem with height when shooting fig-8 (either shoot high, or plow the shot too low). Somehow it also hurts my elbow.
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Re: Figure eight vs helicopter based styles
Reply #34 - Jul 24th, 2021 at 4:38am
 
I'm a beginner slinger and for what it's worth, I felt that with the Byzantine or any side arm technique , you really can add that twist in your hips and your long outstretched arm for maximum power, it's really quite satisfying
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J
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Re: Figure eight vs helicopter based styles
Reply #35 - Jul 25th, 2021 at 11:42am
 
not the best background but my velocity guess is 35 m/s with 300g stone. Distance to the right edge of the video is 20 meters. Im quickly becoming a figure 8 purist. It's even better for pouch orientation control than Greek in my recent experiences

https://youtu.be/_0T5CbhPvM0
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Re: Figure eight vs helicopter based styles
Reply #36 - Jul 26th, 2021 at 12:18pm
 
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Re: Figure eight vs helicopter based styles
Reply #37 - Jul 26th, 2021 at 4:17pm
 
J wrote on Jul 19th, 2021 at 11:55am:
I can not vouch figure 8 being bad for heavy rocks. I slung + 50, 200-300 gram rocks with my sling yesterday with a lot of power and didn't feel any soreness and the distance was greater than slung with sidearm. In fact with my light sling it felt like the only right style suited for this rock and sling. aside from Greek. Figure 8 gives a perfect spiral spin on the rocks every time. Even when slinging square brick rubble.  I did feel some soreness after rocks that were too light. Because there was not enough resistance to pull against, that's why I don't like short to medium slings and sub 100 g rocks. Those type of rocks need a long sling to shine imo.

I see it like this -- thin slings, that rely mostly on tension for pouch orientation - use figure 8 or Greek/Byzantine thicks slings -- more suitable for rotation styles like Balearic and Helicopter and a narrow grip. Because styles that rotate the sling a few times prior to the powerstroke require more than just tension alone to control the pouch orientation. They need some stiffness imo. At least for a consistent orientation control.
But for figure 8 tension (and a wide grip) is plenty sufficient, but there is a smaller  limit to the length of the sling that is possible with figure 8 because it's a vertical style.




While I would never sling stones in the 1lb or above range with the figure-8 other than that my experience has been the same as yours J. I think if you are using the figure 8 with a thick stiff sling you are never going to see why some like it. With a supple thin sling though it practically throws with no effort. Especially with a sling in the 27" or above range.

My experience with the side arm is that paracord and wide grip actually work just fine for side arm. By wide grip I mean ring finger. I was always really happy with the power and accuracy I got with that combo. But i also see why people like very thick/stiff slings. They definitely feel really consistent.

And thats the difficulty. Those balearics feel great but I have yet to see any evidence that a balearic sling acts different under tension vs a paracord one. Obviously when not under high tension they feel drastically different. But during maximum prerelease cord tension im not sure either sling can resist the forces acting on them enough to make a huge difference.

Balearics often feel better but the end results of ADI seems to be the same. At least this is my preliminary theory.

There is a fairly straightforward way to figure this out. Use both with optimum stone weight for each and run a thousand shots through each. Keep detailed scores.

I may be wrong about all of this. Actually really hope I am because it means we are making progress but yea thats how I would approach this.
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