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Cleaner release? (Read 4583 times)
Morphy
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Cleaner release?
Oct 31st, 2012 at 6:13pm
 
This is something I've been wondering about for awhile.  Thought I would run it by you guys.  

Take this example of Luis's Balearic sling he used in the history channel program.  See how the stone is just set on the pouch as opposed to being completely enclosed by a leather pouch?  Does this set up release more cleanly?  What do you guys think?

...
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Masiakasaurus
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Re: Cleaner release?
Reply #1 - Oct 31st, 2012 at 7:09pm
 
Completely enclosed?
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Morphy
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Re: Cleaner release?
Reply #2 - Oct 31st, 2012 at 8:06pm
 
Hmm, like with an apache pouch, you know how the leather folds over the stone and really cups it as opposed to the pic where it is just seems to be resting on the bottom of the pouch.  Not sure if I'm explaining this right.

I'm wondering if there is some benefit to this.
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Dilyan Ganev
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Re: Cleaner release?
Reply #3 - Oct 31st, 2012 at 8:20pm
 
I noticed a difference between the way that the pouch gripped the stone. Pouches which did not completely enclose the stone had more quicker release(an exaggerated example is to throw a chicken's egg sized stone with a 4 inch wide cup)
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Re: Cleaner release?
Reply #4 - Oct 31st, 2012 at 8:53pm
 
I haven't noticed anything like this with the pouch at least. As long as the pouch isn't a tube/extremely cupped, then there should be no issue.

But, if you look at the actual sling, especially the cords, you'll notice how flexible and bouncy it is. I think that's the key to a clean release, having the entire sling be the right amount of flexibility. When you see them open up the sling to load it, you notice how the release cord practically springs open and jiggles around a bit before swaying back and forth. The weight of the sling gives it the energy to really fly quickly, and the tapering makes everything even faster.
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jlasud
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Re: Cleaner release?
Reply #5 - Nov 1st, 2012 at 1:30am
 
This is where the balearic slings stiffness,springiness might come in.Although during the throw, I'm quite sure,the stone seats in the pouch more firmly.I think ammo is more crucial than the pouch,also the weight and drag of the release cord plays a big part of how fast it can get out of the way.
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Re: Cleaner release?
Reply #6 - Nov 1st, 2012 at 3:50am
 
Experience has taught me that uncupped pouches produce a cleaner/more responsive release. I've stopped cupping all of my slings for this very reason.

When I brought out an old workhorse apache sling (the last time I actually cupped a sling pouch) my shots were ridiculously off-target, and way, way late. I was aiming at a 4' concrete pillar, and I was missing to the left by several more feet than usual. It also felt like it tugged at my retention finger more than usual, but that may have just been me.
The model was identical in length and design to my current workhorses, so the chances of it being some other factor are very slim.
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Re: Cleaner release?
Reply #7 - Nov 1st, 2012 at 8:10am
 
I'm the opposite - for me uncupped pouches are erratic and throw high. Plus are far more prone to random release points.

Having tried one of davids - I very much doubt I'll ever use another uncupped pouch - ever ! Smiley

The split pouch is in effect a cupped pouch. In that it holds the stone in place and gives you consistent release points and sling behaviour.
Cupped pouches make sure that the missile is always in the same place. flat unshaped pouches are far more erratic in the missile placement.

I would not recommend a flat pouch to anyone - particularly a novice slinger. Just too random.
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Re: Cleaner release?
Reply #8 - Nov 1st, 2012 at 10:18am
 
There are at least three issues IMO:

1) rock placement - how well does the rock stay seated
2) pouch envelopment - does the pouch interfere because it is too concave?
3) release cord disappearing fast so as not to get in the way.

It seems like a siffer pouch would help with (2) and (3).  The help with (3) might be due to snappiness in getting back to flat.
It seems like cupping would hurt on (2).
It seems like a smaller sling would help wiht (1).
It seems like a lighter release cord would help with (3).

Any other thoughts I'm missing?
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Dan
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Re: Cleaner release?
Reply #9 - Nov 1st, 2012 at 1:49pm
 
The only slings I've used that didn't release clean just had a huge release knot. Of if the cords were really thin, like fishing line.

IME, a poor release with a decent sling is almost entirely user error. It's just easier for we slingers to blame it on the sling as opposed to ourselves. Archers and shooters often do the same. Its often a hard reality to swallow.
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Re: Cleaner release?
Reply #10 - Nov 1st, 2012 at 1:56pm
 
I have already attacked very long thoughts.

I came on a solution.

However, she is completely different than one thinks.

I will write a text in addition and allow to translate him.
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Re: Cleaner release?
Reply #11 - Nov 2nd, 2012 at 7:04pm
 
  Deeply cupped pouches give you the best of both worlds.  Most of the time when I'm using a sling like the modified pjs that I make the projectile, usually an oval shaped, egg sized stone, sits on top of the pouch, perpendicular to it.  Therefore I get the clean release that you mention plus awesome spin.  If I want to use a projectile that is perfectly round, like a golf ball, or a smaller projectile, then I can place it in the pouch.  
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Morphy
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Re: Cleaner release?
Reply #12 - Nov 2nd, 2012 at 7:31pm
 
Ahh.... now there's an interesting idea RM...  Almost like your pouches sides are acting like a normal Balearic where it just rests on it rather than being completely enfolded. 

@Jaegoor -  Looking forward to your thoughts on this. 


Alright so... so far If I read everybody correctly, the general sentiment is a cupped pouch is both good and bad.  It will both help your throwing  as well as hurt it.   Cheesy

My thoughts are similarly divided.  Common sense tells me that the less the projectile is being cupped or held, the cleaner the release will be. On the other hand if there is any truth to the Apache article this could be completely wrong, since the accuracy Grandfather seemed to have far exceeds anything the Balearic slingers (or anyone else) currently have.  Granted part of that was his motivation, practice and natural skill.  But surely if it's possible to have such a degree of accuracy with cupped pouches it should not be affecting my much lower degree of accuracy just yet.

On top of this we are all talking from different slinging experiences.  We all have slightly or very different slinging styles.  What works for one person may very well hurt someone elses accuracy.  This is one major problem with slinging.  Experiences are so different as to make it almost impossible to nail anything down for certain.

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Re: Cleaner release?
Reply #13 - Nov 2nd, 2012 at 10:34pm
 
i personally am in favor of a rockman, or a weird weave called a net sling! also rocklarics are good! they are a effective cross b/t a rockman and a balaric!
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Re: Cleaner release?
Reply #14 - Nov 3rd, 2012 at 12:37am
 
Morphy wrote on Oct 31st, 2012 at 6:13pm:
This is something I've been wondering about for awhile.  Thought I would run it by you guys.  

Take this example of Luis's Balearic sling he used in the history channel program.  See how the stone is just set on the pouch as opposed to being completely enclosed by a leather pouch?  Does this set up release more cleanly?  What do you guys think?

...


It seems to me that a stone will be wrapped tightly with both a cupped pouch and a flat pouch in much the same way. In other words the centrifugal force that happens just before release will act to seat the stone firmly into the pouch no matter the shape. The advantage of a cupped pouch is in holding the stone in place early in the throw before there is enough force to keep it there.

I have used mostly a soft flat leather pouch and use my non throwing hand to hold the projectile in place as I start my wind up. In a throwing style where the sling hangs with the stone in the pouch unaided by the other hand, a cupped pouch is a real help.  Other than that I can't think that one style of pouch would offer much of a cleaner release over another.
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