Slinging.org Forum - ASK QUESTIONS HERE

Primate Tiro Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 22 Dominican Republic Gender:	Re: ASK QUESTIONS HERE Reply #1395 - Jul 27^th, 2024 at 11:40am Has anyone ever used a small gps trackers inserted inside a projectile to measure distance? If so does it work? Im sure there is a post concerning measuring distances? does anyone have the link? thanks
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Klydd

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Re: ASK QUESTIONS HERE
Reply #1396 - Jul 27^th, 2024 at 3:06pm

Question... Is a good crack of a sling actually a good indicator that the projectile has been properly released? Weather here has continued to be terrible so atm what I'm doing is throwing a bit with empty slings inside of my apartment. I have found that the crack doesn't really happen though (with innards of paracord) unless I release EARLIER than I would normally feel like doing.

Is this the sling telling me my release timing is wrong (so far not much experience with actually throwing)?

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ScantPalaver

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Re: ASK QUESTIONS HERE
Reply #1397 - Jul 27^th, 2024 at 5:51pm

Primate wrote on Jul 27^th, 2024 at 11:40am:

Has anyone ever used a small gps trackers inserted inside a projectile to measure distance? If so does it work?

Im sure there is a post concerning measuring distances? does anyone have the link?

thanks

I'm not at a point where I need something to measure distance, but I've watched some of IronGoober's videos where he uses a rangefinder to measure the distance to a rock and uses that to gauge his shots. Or walking to a tennis ball and ranging back at where he started, like a baseball backstop.

Kind of a long-winded way to say there are easier ways to find distance than GPS tracked projectiles. But it's a cool idea...

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« Last Edit: Jul 27^th, 2024 at 11:13pm by ScantPalaver »

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ScantPalaver

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Re: ASK QUESTIONS HERE
Reply #1398 - Jul 27^th, 2024 at 5:55pm

Klydd wrote on Jul 27^th, 2024 at 3:06pm:

Question... Is a good crack of a sling actually a good indicator that the projectile has been properly released? Weather here has continued to be terrible so atm what I'm doing is throwing a bit with empty slings inside of my apartment. I have found that the crack doesn't really happen though (with innards of paracord) unless I release EARLIER than I would normally feel like doing.

Is this the sling telling me my release timing is wrong (so far not much experience with actually throwing)?

I'm kinda curious about this myself. Since I've started, I've kinda focused of getting a good crack with a throw, but I'm starting to suspect that focusing too much on the crack is negatively impacting my technique.

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Q

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Re: ASK QUESTIONS HERE
Reply #1399 - Jul 27^th, 2024 at 11:22pm

ScantPalaver wrote on Jul 27^th, 2024 at 5:55pm:

Klydd wrote on Jul 27^th, 2024 at 3:06pm:

Question... Is a good crack of a sling actually a good indicator that the projectile has been properly released? Weather here has continued to be terrible so atm what I'm doing is throwing a bit with empty slings inside of my apartment. I have found that the crack doesn't really happen though (with innards of paracord) unless I release EARLIER than I would normally feel like doing.

Is this the sling telling me my release timing is wrong (so far not much experience with actually throwing)?

I'm kinda curious about this myself. Since I've started, I've kinda focused of getting a good crack with a throw, but I'm starting to suspect that focusing too much on the crack is negatively impacting my technique.

Unlike whips, I think the primary purpose for crackers on slings, from a mechanical standpoint, is energy dissipation rather than achieving a supersonic crack. This is evident in the fact that even without a proper crack, a sling can still do what it's intended to do, which is shoot a projectile.

Aside from is primary purpose, I find a cracker serves as an excellent aide in refining technique. For one, my crackers only activate when my retention hand is in proper orientation, which is extremely important for me when throwing sidearm/Balearic style. Secondly, I often get 'cracker bite' when my retention hand is out of alignment, usually on my thumb and palm.

Nothing educates you faster than a few stings from the sling.

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Teeth

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Re: ASK QUESTIONS HERE
Reply #1400 - Jul 28^th, 2024 at 1:39am

Klydd wrote on Jul 27^th, 2024 at 3:06pm:

Question... Is a good crack of a sling actually a good indicator that the projectile has been properly released? Weather here has continued to be terrible so atm what I'm doing is throwing a bit with empty slings inside of my apartment. I have found that the crack doesn't really happen though (with innards of paracord) unless I release EARLIER than I would normally feel like doing.

Is this the sling telling me my release timing is wrong (so far not much experience with actually throwing)?

When I started out slinging, I couldn't get any crack out of my sling when I was throwing projectiles. Over time, I've developed my technique and am able to get consistent power and cracks out of it. I think with regular practice, you will be able to make it crack. Don't focus too much on it though, just use good, powerful form, and the crack will come naturally.

This is all in my own personal experience, and it may be affected by the characteristics of your sling too, like the length, taper, and size of the cracker. I definitely don't think your release timing is wrong though, I think it's just that more power is required. If you want it to crack, just try and use good footwork and powerful throwing mechanics to transfer lots of energy into your sling. The faster your sling is moving at release, the more likely it is to crack.

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TOMBELAINE

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Re: ASK QUESTIONS HERE
Reply #1401 - Jul 28^th, 2024 at 11:42am

Q wrote on Jul 27^th, 2024 at 11:22pm:

Unlike whips, I think the primary purpose for crackers on slings, from a mechanical standpoint, is energy dissipation rather than achieving a supersonic crack. This is evident in the fact that even without a proper crack, a sling can still do what it's intended to do, which is shoot a projectile.

I'm ok with you. I can be wrong but I think that a cracker is mainly to please the slinger.

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Rat Man Slinging.org Administrator Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 13836 New Jersey, USA Gender:	Re: ASK QUESTIONS HERE Reply #1402 - Aug 2^nd, 2024 at 12:50pm For me the answer is yes. When my sling cracks it generally means everything was done properly.
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Klydd

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Re: ASK QUESTIONS HERE
Reply #1403 - Aug 26^th, 2024 at 5:32am

Thank you everyone for good and useful input. To update on my own question I regularly get a good crack with my most used sling. While not tapered, so maybe not ideal (it cracks nowhere near as loud as the last ones I've made), it terminates in a full single string with a granny knot which seems to at least be enough (looking to recreate this type release in an upcoming project but the rest of the strings tapered and then the turk's much closer to the single-knot). Just need to put some power into it and it's consistantly loud.

Thing is the newer slings ironically feel LESS usable for me because they crack so much louder (sensitive to sound). Empty sleeve of paracord at the end is bearable (it sounds more like a foldable paper-cracker); a single full cord actually hurts the ears. Finished one yesterday with a few strands removed so four left in the core. STILL too loud for me to like so it's not "pleasing" at all. Can maybe sell or gift them to someone idk.

Question was more if I should try to release earlier because when NOT loaded the sling cracks better that way. That being said not being loaded I guess IS the entire difference (?). With a projectlle may well crack at a "normal" timing of release; just haven't gotten around to try the newer slings properly yet. My beach-sling is probably pretty crap in comparison though so that's why it's used to test. Idc that it gets dirty because it's nowhere near as well made as the new ones.

Another couple of questions... How bad is it to get a sling wet? As said I take mine to the beach but don't actually go in the water wearing it. Have seen people use wax, which would make it a nono to get it wet I assume, but I use none of that. Still fine to throw with post-swimming or more prone to wear/breaking?

"Paracord will shrink the first time it gets wet. Other than that, no adverse effects will be had by getting your paracord wet."

^Don't know if that's good or bad. Braiding gets looser? 🤷‍♂️ Water can be used to intentionally make certain parts of the sling looser on purpose post-braid (maybe the pouch)?

Also have moved away from the flat-braid I learned at first in favor of round braids only. Now that I've learned to make other aspects of the sling better might want to try a flat one again but also don't want to waste material if it's crap in comparison. What are some obvious pros/cons with round/flat? Being able to feel the flat string "turn" while swinging in a con for me; it doesn't feel natural (but maybe it's actually a pro to have it "aligned")? Would mixing a flat/round braid for the up/down cord be a bad idea?

Turk knot didn't feel ideal for the flat string and the alignment was often wrong (might have just been me not doing it properly a while ago). Is there a different knot that's better for flat braids specifically? Matthew Walker? Something else?

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xud9a - call me zud 👍

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Re: ASK QUESTIONS HERE
Reply #1404 - Aug 26^th, 2024 at 8:48am

A few suggestions of answers ..... could be fun !
Given what the sling was made /developed for do you think the ancestors even considered wetness ?
My guess would be animal fats/blood etc would get smeared on the slings which would lead to a form of waterproofing.
A sling crack is breaking the sound barrier, which means some part of the sling is travelling at more than 700 mph. Yes, it will be loud !
My edc is a seatbelt /paracord sling. When it gets wet, and it does, I either handwash it or chuck it in the washing machine. Change observed - none.
Have fun

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Klydd

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Re: ASK QUESTIONS HERE
Reply #1405 - Sep 1^st, 2024 at 7:33pm

xud9a - call me zud 👍 wrote on Aug 26^th, 2024 at 8:48am:

few suggestions of answers ..... could be fun !
Given what the sling was made /developed for do you think the ancestors even considered wetness ?
My guess would be animal fats/blood etc would get smeared on the slings which would lead to a form of waterproofing.
A sling crack is breaking the sound barrier, which means some part of the sling is travelling at more than 700 mph. Yes, it will be loud !
My edc is a seatbelt /paracord sling. When it gets wet, and it does, I either handwash it or chuck it in the washing machine. Change observed - none.
Have fun
Smiley Smiley

Thank you (and others for good input) for the useful reply. Have not been very active the past week to see it, won't be the coming one either most likely, weather has been too good to not go swimming and slinging. OK so the waxing is for waterproofing?

Well read something about getting it wet leading to shrinking. I have noticed my beach sling loosening up towards the end now but it's a 4-round braid into a 3-flat braid (because I ran out of material making it) because didn't know what I was doing while making it. Figure it will break soon but will use it for reference on length for newer slings.

Another question to anyone in the know. Are there pros/cons to a loose/hard pouch? I have now looked at some other people making slings as well and it seems a hard and stiff pouch is preferrable?

My beach-sling has a VERY soft pouch, full core paracord used, but now use gutted paracord for the new ones and it SEEMS much better. They hold shape; better woven so they are hard and tight in comparison. Most of my throwing has been done with the crap sling though, EVERY part of that is loose, so I can't really compare accuracy and haven't tested the newer slings as extensively. My accuracy with the beach-sling has gotten a LOT better but maybe bad to practice with that if I'm not about to recreate something like it once it breaks/if it's better to have a stiff pouch for a cleaner release?

To maybe extend the question any part of the sling that fairs better being stiff vs loose? Fingerloop (single in this case), pouch, upper cord, end-cord?

Finally another very short question... Is there standard terminology for what the parts of the sling are called. Specifically don't know what to call the "upper cord" and "end-cord" but figure there are already better names at least in English?

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IronGoober

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Re: ASK QUESTIONS HERE
Reply #1406 - Sep 1^st, 2024 at 8:12pm

Standard terminology is "release cord" and "retention cord" which should be pretty self-explanatory.

For the pouch. There is a tradeoff between too much and too little interaction with the projectile, as well as durability. Hard pouches tend to interact with the projectile less and are more durable. This can cause early slip-outs. Soft pouches interact a lot with the projectile and this can sometimes cause errant shots because the pouch pulls the shot. It does put more spin on the projectile which can be good or bad depending on how good the throw was. A nice rifled orientation and this will help the shot. A tilted release, and this will cause excessive curve. Soft pouches also tend to be less durable. This isn't a hard rule, just a general observation.

Note, I've had slings that were much to soft, nigh unusable, and then I've also had slings that had very stiff pouches that once I softened the pouch, they performed much better. So, there isn't really a hard and fast rule. Like most things, it depends on the situation.

Best thing is to make both types with everything else the same and go try them out with bad/good stones or something else that is irregular vs. regular.

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John R.

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ScantPalaver

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Re: ASK QUESTIONS HERE
Reply #1407 - Sep 1^st, 2024 at 8:14pm

Klydd wrote on Sep 1^st, 2024 at 7:33pm:

Is there standard terminology for what the parts of the sling are called. Specifically don't know what to call the "upper Finally another very short question... Is there standard terminology for what the parts of the sling are called. Specifically don't know what to call the "upper cord" and "end-cord" but figure there are already better names at least in English?

Yes, and there are prob'ly more than I haven't heard or don't understand.

The "upper cord" with the finger loop is the "retention cord."
The "lower cord" with the cracker or knot is the "release cord."
Where the pouch splits is called the "knee."
Where the pouch rejoins is called the "belly."

Edit: Aww, Goob beat me to it.

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Klydd

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Re: ASK QUESTIONS HERE
Reply #1408 - Sep 4^th, 2024 at 4:50pm

IronGoober wrote on Sep 1^st, 2024 at 8:12pm:

Standard terminology is "release cord" and "retention cord" which should be pretty self-explanatory.

For the pouch. There is a tradeoff between too much and too little interaction with the projectile, as well as durability. Hard pouches tend to interact with the projectile less and are more durable. This can cause early slip-outs. Soft pouches interact a lot with the projectile and this can sometimes cause errant shots because the pouch pulls the shot. It does put more spin on the projectile which can be good or bad depending on how good the throw was. A nice rifled orientation and this will help the shot. A tilted release, and this will cause excessive curve. Soft pouches also tend to be less durable. This isn't a hard rule, just a general observation.

Note, I've had slings that were much to soft, nigh unusable, and then I've also had slings that had very stiff pouches that once I softened the pouch, they performed much better. So, there isn't really a hard and fast rule. Like most things, it depends on the situation.

Best thing is to make both types with everything else the same and go try them out with bad/good stones or something else that is irregular vs. regular.

Thank you. This helps a lot.

This is good to know. When throwing hard with balearic style used to get a lot of slice. I don't now... But maybe that's me correcting for it physically without thinking about it (?). I can usually get within 1x1 meter of my target now 30 meters and less. The distance (for ground targets; currently shoot at piles of rocks) is often wrong though. Either end up a bit too short or, if throwing hard, overshoot by a LOT.

Figure I'll keep doing these new pouches hard then and then have them loosen while throwing. 👍 Any thoughts on using full paracord vs gutting it (currently gutting it to make it easier to braid in AND making the pouch a bit harder)? Maybe worth trying to use a smaller paracord (2mm vs the "normal" 4 mm)?

Beach-sling is VERY loose and has started to unravel near the top. Just trying to make another one the same length now but miss by cm's all the time.

I don't know what "rifled orientation" means sorry?

ScantPalaver wrote on Sep 1^st, 2024 at 8:14pm:

Klydd wrote on Sep 1^st, 2024 at 7:33pm:

Is there standard terminology for what the parts of the sling are called. Specifically don't know what to call the "upper Finally another very short question... Is there standard terminology for what the parts of the sling are called. Specifically don't know what to call the "upper cord" and "end-cord" but figure there are already better names at least in English?

Yes, and there are prob'ly more than I haven't heard or don't understand.

The "upper cord" with the finger loop is the "retention cord."
The "lower cord" with the cracker or knot is the "release cord."
Where the pouch splits is called the "knee."
Where the pouch rejoins is called the "belly."

Edit: Aww, Goob beat me to it.

Nah didn't know about "knee" or "belly" so thank you as well this is helpful.

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IronGoober

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Re: ASK QUESTIONS HERE
Reply #1409 - Sep 4^th, 2024 at 6:05pm

Essentially, by 'rifled' I mean that the axis the projectile is spinning around is parallel to the direction of travel.

If you are having trouble with curve, check out this video about curve and "rifled' releases (AKA 'spiraled' if you're familiar with throwing a rugby ball).

https://youtu.be/ESrvvBFcrWM

There are 2 more videos in this 'curve' series, but I found they aren't as important as the concepts in the first video.

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John R.

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