Masiakasaurus wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2011 at 9:38am:


Or 3' 11.24" , round up to 4 feet. and 1' 7.68" round down (balances the prevous round up) to a foot and a diameter.

so 4' square, 1 1/2' circle. about a yard off the ground. 

I am going camping with a few friends tonight I'll see if we can make one of these (out of some thick canvas) and try it out.

Yeah definitly a good idea to reienforce the diana, not only because of the sound differnce but also becuase I'll probably be hitting it almost every time, not. 

Seriously though I'll see if I can get the Canvas tonight and spray paint on a temporary diana and I'll just reinfoce it later. And then next week I'll ger more of a chance to sling (this week is the last week of Bow season), and almost the peak of the rut.

I've found proof that we can legitimately forgot all about the Balearic style limitation for competition :
It was only for aesthetics.

My proof is here : http://slinging.org/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1121095277/3#3.
For those who don't know, Vicente is (was ?) an official judge for the Balearic competitions, so he kinda know what he's talking about.

As a collateral, we learn that the balearic style... is a made-up style and that the people using the sling everyday used quicker styles.

Oh yes, my post goes on...

2. I like the idea of having a smaller inner circle within the middle of the Balearic target. It makes sense, it's the pinnacle of possible accuracy within the target and it should be worth more points.

3. Why not extend another category of accuracy up to at least 60 meters or even above. It's planning for the future - if 45 meters becomes easier with the intake of better slinging benchmarks. It is certainly possible to hit the Balearic target at these distances. I bet there are a few slingers on the website who are able to hit targets at this distance, let alone shepherds in unreachable locations.

4. I think I read each category of distance contains only 3 shots. It's very possible to fluke those shots with such a small sample size. Why isn't the number of shots merely 10 for each category? I think it's a better indicator of accuracy in terms of consistency and I can definitely see it making a competition more tense and rely on better skills.

5. I am fond of the idea of having equal ammunition such as the squash balls or clay ammo, at least in the standardized aspect of the sport. It's easier to control and easier to tune in accuracy than using rocks. Something like tennis balls are safer for newcomers and ensure each person in the competition hasn't got an advantage over the next in terms of ammunition. For a free category, I wouldn't care, to each their own.

6. So we've got a lot of go to these ideas, so what now? Do we put it in our slinging ebook guide? On the website? Do we form our own slinging competition organization? The federation or what? I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this the most.  

C_A and Camo make some very good points, but I still feel that such an action would only hurt slinging efforts more than it would help.

Keep in mind that it's the arbitrary restrictions that made the Balearic ruleset so controversial outside of the Balearic isles in the first place. Otherwise we probably would've just adopted it instead of continually trying to reinvent the wheel. (For example, I prefer synthetic materials in my workhorse slings, and I prefer two rotations or less when I throw with them. Both are big no-no's in the Balearic ruleset.)

I'll compare my reluctance for a rigidly-micro-managed system to modern fencing, and it's drawbacks.
Sure, In the beginning it's fairly easy for newbies to get in the groove. However, it's that very same iron fist of regulations--many of which are just inappropriately silly for a martial art--that result in either constantly complaining/annoyed fencers, or fencers simply abandoning it all-together for more organic sword-based martial arts. (It was HEMA, in my case.)

Even if you ignore the logistical complications of supplying each and every slinger with identical gear, there's still the human aspect. You can standardize every little aspect, but people aren't identical. What works for one person will only serve to handicap another. A meter-long sling used in a figure-8 is going to behave differently for a 5' tall guy than it will for a 6' 5" guy. Sure, most may be able to get by... but if you give a novice an ill-matched sling and a make him use a style he doesn't really have an affinity towards, he'll do one of two things:

  *Either he'll realize the restrictions the system is putting on him and be unable to do anything about it...
  *He'll blame it on himself, ultimately convinced that he's "not gifted" and ending up quitting. (This is a very commonly-seen mindset, btw.)

Granted, if "set loose in the library", a beginner can quickly become confused and lost in tiny details from so many different conflicting sources. That just means we need an easy-grasped introduction to the sport for beginners. Something like a "Slinger's Guide" in book form... Gee, If only we had one of those: that would solve most of the problems novices' have! I wish a book like that existed!

When you boil it down all you really need to know to get started is a sling about the length of their own arm, and some pointers on where to begin. (Slinger's Guide, YouTube videos, "where to begin" articles/forum threads, etc.) After that, they can experiment and dial in their preferences however they want. It's really not that complicated, and we already have tons of resources nowadays that keep readdressing this. No need to get hung up on it.



Anyways, do I think we should have an easily-accessible method for newbies? Yes! Do I think a tightly-controlled standard that everyone must conform to will solve this? Heck no. Do I think no rules whatsoever is necessary? Definitely not.
It's all about moderation: having everything regulated to the point that people are quickly starting to suffer from suffocating restrictions is just as bad as total anarchy.

As for the "lack of access to a good sling" issue...
I'm pretty sure the biggest reason for most newbies not taking advantage of the Aussie pouch deal is because they simply don't know about it. Not because existing resources are non-existent, but because they aren't aware of all of the goodies potentially available to them! The Aussie pouch thread may be a sticky in one of the sub-forums, but I've known several people who didn't even know there was a forum on the website to begin with.
If we made sure to tell newbies about it, then they'd likely pounce on the offer. (I usually go a step further and carry a few pouches in my backpack and just hand them out when someone's interested)

What I think we should do to make it easier on beginners is have an easily-accessible and well-publicized "basic model" or two for beginners. Then you could simply keep a stock of them on-hand to loan out/give away at slinging clubs and events. Aussie pouches and seatbelt slings would fill this need beautifully. Then if they want to upgrade after a certain time, then they can do so at their own leisure. That way everyone wins: the existing slingers/slinging cultures won't be completely alienated, and the newbies will be able to join into the fray rather quickly.




[The part below is more casual preferences rather than stuff that I absolutely hate.]
However, I am all for a standardized range, and to a degree, ammo. (Lead out-distances all other ammo, and can potentially poison the local environment.) For official events/tournaments, I'd recommend either carefully-chosen river rock, concrete, or clay as a decent-enough compromise between ease of access and manufacture while maintaining a "professional" appearance. (Mortar, concrete, and clay are fairly easily-attainable in areas without decent rocks)

It might be a good idea to make it only concrete/mortar/clay/stone initially, and then introduce a metal ammo division/event if demand is big enough. (In a way, like what baseball has going on with wood vs. metal bats)

Honestly, I have no problem if someone likes using some ball from another sport as their preferred practice ammo, but using rubber balls as the standard ammo for an international slinging competition would be like sticking suction cups on the ends of arrows in a high-level competition, or using a Red Rider bb gun for an olympic biathalon. Fair enough if it's only beginners in a short-distance event, but otherwise it looks silly if everyone is using them.
As for the "safety of modified rubber balls" aspect: if a rubber ball is dense enough to sling accurately over 25-40 meters, it's not going to be much safer than just getting hit with a rock/concrete glande in the first place.


I like the idea of just using the Balearic target with some kind of smaller sub target added to the center of the diana. The combo would work really well.
I originally voted 15, 25, 35, but after some more thought, I like the 10, 20, 30 meter classes better for simplicity's sake. And it should definitely be meters, not yards. I may be American, but I still think it's retarded and inconsiderate to continue being too stubborn, lazy, and short-sighted to adopt the metric system like the rest of the world. A short-term headache in exchange for a measurement system that will permanently ensure that cross-measurement confusion is a thing of the past? Heck yeah!

================================



TL; DR Version:
No restrictions for slings or their materials. (Maybe a long and short sling division at most.)
No restrictions on slinging technique.
Yes to the 10,20,30 meter distances.
Yes to the Balearic target with an additional inner "diana" of sorts.
Stone/concrete/clay ammo preferred. (Maybe metal later on, if demand calls for it)

Also, I would include this in my post, but I think it would not be noticed- Some, actually MANY slingers do not have a 50 yard safe space to sling in. you want at least 2 meters behind target and 2 behind you, if not more, so a 45 meter range is simply impractical for many of us. Lightslinger mentioned this a while ago.
Thanks for patience,
-Squirrel

squirrelslinger wrote on Mar 1^st, 2013 at 4:04pm:

In this one context, this in a false problem.

What we discuss here is the sport aspects of the slinging development.
You can play catch with your friends in your garden (even with your sling) but you need a special environment to train a baseball team (and they won't allow you to bring out your sling...)

If you are serious about making a sport out of this, then you will find some space to train even for the longer distances
If you're a marathonian, you don't run in circle in your backyard, do you ? Same with slinging while training for competition with such a range.

If i remember what I read correctly (it's currently 1 and half in the morning on a friday evening after a tiring week, my brain is quite fried ) we almost all agree that less regulation is good, that the newbies will want something easy to start with and veterans want something complicated. And that 2 slingers won't ever agree, even on the color of Gengis Khan's white horse...

So far, concerning the target we have balearic sized target, at 3 fixed distance.
If you hit the diana 50 times out of 50 shots, you can always double this distance, so it's also cutting drosophilas' butt hair in 4 to nitpick about a couple meters more or less, so let's go with 15 - 30 - 45 for a starter. This is the distances that get the most votes and we can always change that once we have proof that's not enough/too much.

Concerning standardisation, sorry C_A, I'm pretty sure you're right about easing the newcomer's choice by telling them "this is standard material" but I think it's club management's duty to issue "safety slings and ammo" for beginner.

If we want to stress out security, we can say "each competition has a "beginner" class, for those with less than 3 competitions (or at club coach discretion). Beginner will have to used safety ammo such as [insert standard industrialised already rather easily obtainable ammo] and will be allowed to shot from nearer" or whatever in the same style.

If people want to keep the safety belt and paracord sling (I believed that will be the most worldwide standard you can go) all along their slinging competitive carreer, it should not be a problem. Neither if they want to use a full balearic or a knitted one or a shoe... Well, maybe if they want to use a shoe, they may be set apart (and not having their limbs taken apart, however tempting it sounds).

We can have a "weapon check" before competiting, but that's the organisators' choice.

Concerning the more dangerous ammo, I must confess that I don't know out of : the first to make something that can be easily exported and mass produced will probably be the one who's right. How many of you would be Ok for doing cement or clay shots by hundreds or sorting out the same numbers of rocks for a week-end long competition ?
No one will ever agree one the optimal weight of "serious and dangerous" shots, so I'm afraid it will boil down to "each slinger take his own ammo", and again the security check (no cracks, no visible defaults etc, etc...). Obviously, if one bring 2kg shots, he may have to pay for property damages

For the library metaphor... for now, wwe only have the library, we do'nt even have children nor teacher nor teaching programs
And that's what we need.

Right now, my provate life is quite complicated so I did nothing for my slinging club for almost one year (and this upset me) but I now what I need and I will be working on it : more advertisement and something to aim to motivate newcomers (as a club, I already have my slinging target).

Well, I feel like I'm starting to rant in circle and being disagreable, so I will let myself cool down and go to sleep.


Last rant :
We need to try and keep what's working, not to argue for the sake of argueing.
So go find students and make them sling their arms out ! ^^

Finished at 2h30 ^^