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Slings vs longbows (Read 17522 times)

Thearos Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Take that Posts: 3410	Re: Slings vs longbows Reply #15 - Aug 31^st, 2011 at 4:35pm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0Dx8tZOOu8&feature=related
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Morphy

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Re: Slings vs longbows
Reply #16 - Sep 2^nd, 2011 at 1:03am

Probably most of this is simply a numbers game. 3:1 odds is suicide to go against in most cases. I would assume if those odds had been in the favor of the slingers there would have been a whole lot of barely recognizable English bowmen before too long.

Imagine if 12 thousand large sling stones were flying through the air towards the bowmen and 3 thousand shafts were flying towards the slingers. Every shaft that hit a sling stone in mid-air would probably have been smashed fairly severely. Yet even if the stone had been split in two, it still could have done some damage coming down.

It's really the ultimate rock beats scissors scenario. Wink

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jlasud

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Re: Slings vs longbows
Reply #17 - Sep 2^nd, 2011 at 7:40am

Reading Theros's post i imagined that the lightly packed slinger unit receiving arrows from a much denser and bigger archery formation received lesser hit ratio than if the slingers were closer together (like archers).I wrote this because it's been discussed that the slingers have to have more space between them,and that being a disadvantage.Of course the slingers being outnumbered 3:1 they probably didn't enjoyed too much of their loose formation Cheesy

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timann Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 2504 Norway Gender:	Re: Slings vs longbows Reply #18 - Sep 2^nd, 2011 at 12:14pm Besides the 3:1 odds, I`m thinking dicipline. My guess is that the archers was trained to stand and fire no matter what. If the slingers, already outnumbered, attempts to dodge the arrows instead of stand and sling, the result is obvious.
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Thearos Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Take that Posts: 3410	Re: Slings vs longbows Reply #19 - Sep 3^rd, 2011 at 11:11pm Yes, the English longbowmen were part of the famously disciplined expeditionary forces led by English kings on the continent.
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HurlinThom

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Re: Slings vs longbows
Reply #20 - Sep 4^th, 2011 at 11:51am

One incentive for sticking together would be that the English were a long way from home in a place they didn't speak the language, and any stragglers or runaways would face locals who would be pleased to stick a pitchfork through their brisket. Foreign armies have traditionally had a way of alienating the local inhabitants (rape, pillage, etc).

When all is said and done more will have been said than done.

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Thearos

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Re: Slings vs longbows
Reply #21 - Sep 4^th, 2011 at 12:10pm

Especially since the modus operandi of the English expeditionary force was the "chevauchee", basically living off the land + extreme violence applied to the inhabitants-- a way of making the French king look weak and goad him into battle (basically into driving knights into a storm of longbow arrows, open to counterattack by knights and men-at-arms)

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varangianslinger Novicius Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 6 sydney, australia Gender:	Re: Slings vs longbows Reply #22 - Sep 4^th, 2011 at 9:31pm a mode of operating of course trned thouroughly on its head by the policies of the duke of wellington in the peninsular war. with the purpose of maintaining the trust of the spanish partizans.
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Bill Skinner

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Re: Slings vs longbows
Reply #23 - Sep 6^th, 2011 at 10:29am

The English archers probably had some forms of armor, the Spanish slingers, who were probably semi conscripted peasants, more than likey did not. At that time, most soldigers were responsible for suppling their own armor, if you had armor, you got paid more. I don't think slingers, who were usually peasants, could afford much armor. I doubt that most would even have shields that were capable of stopping the arrows fired from the English longbows. Bill

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Curious Aardvark

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Re: Slings vs longbows
Reply #24 - Oct 5^th, 2011 at 6:46am

bear in mind that the current balearic distance record is under 200m.
Traditionally they use short slings and large rocks. Completely different to the greek and roman traditions.

And that in both cases you are dealing with professional bowmen and slingers.
Both of which would be capable of out distancing any of todays enthusiastic historians Wink

plus - come on 3-1 odds with that kind of missile weapon are always going to tell.

So in this case - bowmen would defintiely outrange the slingers. No question.

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Thearos

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Re: Slings vs longbows
Reply #25 - Oct 5^th, 2011 at 9:13am

Yes, I agree re ranges. This is how I mapped out the tactical data:

Thearos wrote on Aug 31^st, 2011 at 4:31pm:

This is how I understand the engagement at Najera

The Spanish slingers moved to engage with warslings, slinging at say 200m distance. I assume this represents nearly extreme distance for slingers with large stones. Their first shot landed among the English, and harmed bowmen and men at arms.

The English bowmen replied: their very first volley broke the Spanish slinging line, because of volume of shot (the longbowmen not only outnumbered the slingers, but could be packed more densely) and because of speed.

As the slingers withdrew, the English bowmen could pursue with with arrow shot, since the longbow is effective over a longer distance (300m ?) than the warsling (200m)-- they bracketed the retreating Spanish slingers with volleys or continuous shots over 100m. This prevented the slingers from rallying, and probably killed or incapacitated a good deal of them.

-- but I do wonder about the figures, which seem incredibly high (also for the numbers of men-at-arms, etc).

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Curious Aardvark Forum Moderation Offline Taller than the average Dwarf Posts: 13965 Midlands England Gender:	Re: Slings vs longbows Reply #26 - Oct 6^th, 2011 at 7:58am which figures are high ? The distances are pretty conservative I would say. Just depends entirely on the size of rocks the slingers were using. But 200 m for a full longbow is easily within range.
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Knaight

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Re: Slings vs longbows
Reply #27 - Oct 6^th, 2011 at 8:16am

Curious Aardvark wrote on Oct 6^th, 2011 at 7:58am:

which figures are high ?

The distances are pretty conservative I would say.

Just depends entirely on the size of rocks the slingers were using. But 200 m for a full longbow is easily within range.

Yeah, they seem reasonable. If they had to aim at something smaller than a formation it would be high, but they didn't.

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Thearos Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Take that Posts: 3410	Re: Slings vs longbows Reply #28 - Oct 6^th, 2011 at 9:18am No, sorry-- I meant the numbers of guys involved ! 12 K Longbowmen seemed a lot to me
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SchlrFtrRkMystc Junior Member Offline I want what all men want... I just want it more Posts: 65 Southern California Gender:	Re: Slings vs longbows Reply #29 - May 31^st, 2013 at 4:24am Najera seems to also have had a large number of crossbowmen... what part did they play in this battle? Its seems it wasn't just 4k slingers vs 12k longbowmen...
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