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scythian arrowheads and chem weapons... (Read 12634 times)
HurlinThom
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Re: scythian arrowheads and chem weapons...
Reply #30 - Jul 21st, 2011 at 10:00pm
 
Kruggur, we seem to define stuff differently. I don't call targeting civilians war; to me it's terrorism. No matter who does it. A constant state of war has to last more than one or two generations as I see it. Etc.

We obviously disagree on a number of points, and are unlikely to convince the other party that we are right. Shall we leave it at that?
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When all is said and done more will have been said than done.
 
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kuggur slingdog
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Re: scythian arrowheads and chem weapons...
Reply #31 - Jul 22nd, 2011 at 5:22am
 
Fine by me, nitpicking over definitions is not that interesting anyway.
For instance the word terrorism you bring up is just used where convenient.
The israelian army using cluster bombs on civilian urban area´s, warfare or terrorism?
The resistance movement in WO 2 blowing up railroad tracks, warfare or terrorism?
The Taliban shooting down a russian helicopter?
The same Taliban blowing up a US tank with a roadside bomb?
Usually defined not by the nature of the action, or even wheter performed by "official"soldiers or civilians, just by "on which side do I stand in the conflict".

We also moved away to far from "poisened arrows".... Wink
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HurlinThom
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Re: scythian arrowheads and chem weapons...
Reply #32 - Jul 22nd, 2011 at 12:16pm
 
Quote:
Fine by me, nitpicking over definitions is not that interesting anyway.
For instance the word terrorism you bring up is just used where convenient.
The israelian army using cluster bombs on civilian urban area´s, warfare or terrorism?
The resistance movement in WO 2 blowing up railroad tracks, warfare or terrorism?
The Taliban shooting down a russian helicopter?
The same Taliban blowing up a US tank with a roadside bomb?
Usually defined not by the nature of the action, or even wheter performed by "official"soldiers or civilians, just by "on which side do I stand in the conflict".

We also moved away to far from "poisened arrows".... Wink

Moved on from poisoned arrows to poisoned definitions.

Taliban taking military action: war, against US, USSR, whoever. Taliban taking action against schools daring to teach girls: terrorism. It isn't all that difficult.

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kuggur slingdog
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Re: scythian arrowheads and chem weapons...
Reply #33 - Jul 22nd, 2011 at 12:48pm
 
Yeah, keep it nice and simple.
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Rat Man
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Re: scythian arrowheads and chem weapons...
Reply #34 - Jul 22nd, 2011 at 5:17pm
 
Whether one judges the practice to be ethical or not, it's fascinating info.  Good post, Johnny!
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paracordslinger
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Re: scythian arrowheads and chem weapons...
Reply #35 - Jul 23rd, 2011 at 1:46pm
 
Morphy wrote on Jul 19th, 2011 at 9:24pm:
I remember reading somewhere about the Vietcong dipping blowgun darts in canned food that they had punctured and let rot. Apparently the idea was botulinum would breed in the cans and the botulinum toxin would then coat the darts.

actually the vietcong used pit traps with poop on the stakes, they dipped it all in human crap, isgusting, right!
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Morphy
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Re: scythian arrowheads and chem weapons...
Reply #36 - Jul 23rd, 2011 at 2:36pm
 
It is disgusting. I think they did both though.

Speaking along those lines. I once knew a guy that served in Vietnam. He told me a story about how him and a buddy went to a locals house and were invited in the eat. His buddy started eating first and all of the sudden started spiting up blood. The people in the house had ground up glass very fine and put it in the stew.

That is the story anyways. War is a terrible thing.
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johnny108
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Re: scythian arrowheads and chem weapons...
Reply #37 - Jul 23rd, 2011 at 2:48pm
 
I didn't expect an ethical discourse from my post!  (besides- killing "civilians" becomes blurred when the civilians are making weapons, or are acting as ammo bearers for the combatants have seen the latter myself).
I also read that a snake "motif" was inscribed on the arrows- perhaps a tradition in hoping the arrow would "bite" like a snake?
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SchlrFtrRkMystc
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Re: scythian arrowheads and chem weapons...
Reply #38 - Oct 29th, 2014 at 3:40am
 
Love this topic and it is a complex one. The Scythians used a whole host of poisons for their arrows... some more immediate than others in effect.

The stuff being discussed here often called "Scythicon", was actually quite advanced... it features 4 primary ingredients: viper venom, rotting viper corpse, human feces, and human blood plasma. The fact that they were able to separate plasma from the rest of the blood is a huge technical achievment, and that it was harnessed to make an extremely effective bio chemical weapon is also impressive.

While some cultures did corpse or poopy dip this is far more complex and effective as the viper venom present does generate an immediate effect... and it magnifies the efficacy of the bacterial agents which have been cultivated from poopy and snake flesh to thrive in human blood plasma.

Also relevant to us sling folk is I hypothesize that the method of separating the plasma from the blood was through a sling like mechanism. By putting a container on a cord and swining it overhead like with the sidearm release they could create a primitive centrifuge to separate the plasma.

Also this technique seems to have been kept as an effective secret... though some native american cultures did something similar with viper venom, deer liver, and human blood (sometimes with feces as well).

But yeah arrow poisoning was common and awesome... and it one of the advantages of archery over slinging.
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squirrelslinger
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Re: scythian arrowheads and chem weapons...
Reply #39 - Nov 5th, 2014 at 7:10pm
 
Supposedly snake venom is so toxic because it is actually biological, not chemical.
Rotting snakes stink awesomely. Like gagging from a hundred feet away awesomely. I'm pretty sure that is gonna give you an infection.
Coat broken glass in that stuff and sling it. Gonna cause some ouchies.
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Re: scythian arrowheads and chem weapons...
Reply #40 - Dec 19th, 2014 at 8:49pm
 
Quote:
At the time medical knowledge was mostly religious/superstitious so there was still a good chance of getting an infection from an arrow that wasn't poisoned.


I was told that in school too, but I no longer believe it.  There are many herbs which help prevent cuts from becoming infected.  Plantain is the one I often use.  It doesn't take an master herbalist who knows hundreds of herbs for hundreds of ailments, just a regular parent who teaches when you get a cut this is what you do.  It's no more complicated than learning to use neosporin and a band aid. 

On a deep wound all the way through the skin an herbal poultice is not very effective.  It is possible the snake venom causes a lot of short term disruption in the tissue around the wound, allowing the bacteria agents more time to infect, and reducing the affect of herbal poultices. 

I'm not saying herbal medicine can do everything, but it can do as well as the over the counter creams like neosporin that people use today. 
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