Thearos: for leather add all of pre-Columbian North America...

http://anthro.amnh.org/anthropology/databases/common/public_access.cfm?database=...

yep - so rope making and braiding is basic everyday activity.

so is sling making.

whether or not the sling is braided or leather - there would have been simple quick slings for everyday use and more complicated ones for 'sunday best'.

And the vast majority of those discovered are for 'sunday best'.

Also given the natural materials used - very few of the everyday slings would survive to be found. Odd sare they'd just have been discarded when broken and a new one swiftly knocked up.

I'm not disputing that most slings would have had a braided component.
just the assertion that ALL slings were items people invested lots of time and effort making and were thus valuable commodities.
That's just daft.

Aussie wrote on May 22^nd, 2010 at 1:19am:

Finney is going at the problem which is in a sense 'backwards' from our point of view.

He wanted to model the trajectory of a stone, he has drawn these onto various hill fort profiles, but he needed to justify using parabolic curves appropriate to negligible air resistance, presumably for simplicity.

He did some calculations (the Reynolds Number mentioned above) and decided that was sufficient to allow him to neglect air resistance. It wasn't, even if the value had been calculated correctly.

The velocities, launch angles, etc. are all inferred on the assumption of no air resistance from just distance and flight time. Since he was not that experienced, there is huge spread in his experimental results. The highest velocity he reported was inferred for a throw at an angle of 18 degrees from the horizontal!

Doubtless there is a systematic error in his results due to neglecting air resistance, but since there is so much scatter in his raw data it may not be that obvious.

However, he is modeling on assumptions which I abandoned myself when I was in the early stages of slinging, realizing that air resistance was evidently important. The stones he uses are mostly rather heavier than the ones I used, so air resistance would have been less important for him, it's very difficult to say how much.

You still need evidence;  in absence of evidence, parallels and analogies (that's what ethno-archaeology is for). I still hold that even making a 'simple' sling takes care, and skills-- and that's common sense, as well as my own experience. But generally,if common sense just means "what I feel", it can't be worth much.

Reading Cahlander, I see a slinging culture where people are serious about slinging-- and braid beautiful slings, even for 'daily' use: men braid all the time (in downtime from work, or walking to festivals), are reluctant to teach the complex weaves to outsiders (and women), and wear slings-- e.g. around their head, like the Balearic slingers. These are not ritual , "dancing" slings, which are much more complex obbjects, but daily use slings: complex 4 or 16 strand braids with patterns.

Or i look at the videos of modern menorcan sling braiders using esparto grass. I'm sure an Andean villager or an ancient Balearic islander could knock up a sling if needed-- but hold that well made, complex objects are the rule.

The slings of the Palestinian shebabs are rough and ready, but they are made in a particular context (the post 1968 Palestinian refugee society, no longer quite a traditional agricultural and pastoral society) to fight and discard in riots against Israeli border police; and even so, the dimensions of cord and pouch show some thought and care, judging from photographs.

So I would maintain (until I see evidence to the contrary, not "common sense" statements) that:
1. "serious about slinging, serious about slings" is a good rule of thumb for slinging societies
2. the Celtic hillforts, with their heavy emphasis on the sling, might well have been Andean-style sling braiders.

Curious Aardvark wrote on May 23^rd, 2010 at 11:39am:

As is demonstrated in countless ancient and modern examples, the animal skin is not required. Why use animal skin when you can form the pouch with the same material you are using for the cords?

I suspect from their point of view, your 'obvious' combination of a leather pouch and cordage might be considered unnatural.

Curious Aardvark wrote on May 20^th, 2010 at 11:01am:



My how heated this discussion has become, and all over a few little words, albeit provocative ones. We've now started arguing about the relative merits of braided v. leather pouched slings, the degree of difficulty in manufacture, status in society and all sorts of stuff which really is beside the point.

What does Finney's statement actually say? I've underlined the contentious point so we can zero in on it. He maintains the sling is not a simple weapon and backs this by say that an "artefact" (just why he calls it an artefact is not clear) that can cast a stone over 80m at 100kph. has to be made to high specs. (again just what high specs means is not defined). Now that particular statement is questionable at best. A really good thrower can probably achieve that by hand with no sling at all. Certainly the simplest, most basic of slings will help any average slinger surpass those results, certainly the 100k/h figure which is only 28m/s.

Sure, in societies where slings are valued they may be beautifully crafted works of art as well as functional tools. But they don't have to be to work any more than the superb engraving on shotguns helps them to shoot better. I am sure Finney didn't intend his statement to be subjected to so high a degree of analysis but let's keep the distinction between functionality and beauty.

Yes, I think it's an easy trap to fall into to evaluate things through our affluent modern eyes where we have a superabundance of material possessions. No doubt in a society where people own very little of anything even a simple sling is a major possession. This I think, is the key to why they would make very elaborate slings when simple ones would function just as well. The shepherding society's equivalent to going into debt to buy a Mercedes Benz when a Kia would do just as well.