Slinging.org Forum - David & Goliath overlooked variable. xxkid123 read

Rockman

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David & Goliath overlooked variable. xxkid123 read
Dec 23^rd, 2009 at 2:33pm

I've been thinking latley about something about D&G.

We know that killing a man with a sling shot is a very possible stunt, it has been demostrated by the Lost science of the bible video.
I know I can throw fatal shots with my sling and I'm sure all of you can do it as well.

The thing is, most members of the forum are grown men, and so, wield the sling with an adult's strenght. David was supposed to be a boy.

So I'm asking xxkid123 to make a simple test. I seem to remember you're 12 (I think) You're the appropiate age for testing the capabilities of a boy slinging at Goliath.

If you can, record some throws at a stationary target (a tree, a wall etc) at an appropiate distance let's say 10 or 15 meters.
If you do it, answer here, I'll do the rest.

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Aussie

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Re: David & Goliath overlooked variable. xxkid123
Reply #1 - Dec 23^rd, 2009 at 3:34pm

This question has been alluded to in the David v Goliath threads in the History section. David was no small boy. Though his age is not given he would most likely have been in his late teens. We can deduce this from a number of details given in the account.

1. He is to be given the king's daughter as a wife in reward, so he was likely of or close to marriagable age.

2. He makes a strong, equal, friendship with the king's son Jonathan who was already an established warrior, so an adult. This is unlikely if there was too large an age gap.

3. He tried on the king's armour and rejected it not because it was too big but because he found it cumbersome. Considering that Saul was above average height (one of the reasons he was chosen as king) it is unlikely that he would have even tried it on if he was just a small boy. Presumably it was somewhere close to the right size. After all they could have scouted around to find the smallest warrior in the army and given his armour to David.

4. After the battle, as his fame grew, David was appointed a commander in his own right. Unlikely that troops would accept a small boy as a commander no matter how famous he was.

Having said all that I think that even as a 12yo he would most likely have been able to sling with sufficient power to kill a man with a head shot.

BTW, depending on response, we may move this over and attach it to the existing DvG thread.

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xxkid123 Past Moderator Offline Hallo, ich heiße kartoffel Posts: 4807 new to california Gender:	Re: David & Goliath overlooked variable. xxkid123 Reply #2 - Dec 23^rd, 2009 at 4:23pm erm.... i'm sorta overweight, i'm short..like midget, and i don't have brawn power- just brains and insanity. but yeah, i'll try. i won't do a special target- i have low power when i'm accurate. i'll go for a wood target.
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Masiakasaurus past-moderator Offline mah-SEE-a-kah-SOR-us Posts: 6069 Alabama, USA Gender:	Re: David & Goliath overlooked variable. xxkid123 Reply #3 - Dec 23^rd, 2009 at 4:26pm I've always kinda thought that the amazing fact was that David hit Goliath in the eye, not just the head so that Goliath's helmet wouldn't protect him. Just my 2 cents.
Back to top	Pikåru wrote on Nov 19^th, 2013 at 6:59pm: Massi - WTF? It's called a sling. You use it to throw rocks farther and faster than you could otherwise. That's all. ~Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily avialable, they will create their own problems.~ IP Logged

xxkid123

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Re: David & Goliath overlooked variable. xxkid123
Reply #4 - Dec 23^rd, 2009 at 4:29pm

oh, another overlooked variable- back then most would be bathing in ice cold water if at all, sleeping on hard stones even on the coldest of nights, and beatings would be normal if not routine. right now i doubt few people who have access to computers would still follow that. right now football is as close to a beating (american) here.

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Masiakasaurus

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Re: David & Goliath overlooked variable. xxkid123
Reply #5 - Dec 23^rd, 2009 at 4:37pm

The average height was shorter, diet leaner, and shepherd's relied on their sling to scare off predators. Marriage age was *probably* 14 for girls and 16-20 for men. Puberty hits about 4 years earlier now than then, and jaws were larger so birth weight was lower (big head=birthing problems). Our culture is radically different, and we are physically different so our skills are also different. I don't know if an accurate re-creation is possible.

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Pikåru wrote on Nov 19^th, 2013 at 6:59pm:

Massi - WTF? It's called a sling. You use it to throw rocks farther and faster than you could otherwise. That's all.
~Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily avialable, they will create their own problems.~

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Fundibularius

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Re: David & Goliath overlooked variable. xxkid123
Reply #6 - Dec 23^rd, 2009 at 5:36pm

[1 Sam 17]

33 Saul said to David, 'You cannot go and fight the Philistine; you are only a boy and he has been a warrior since his youth.'
34 David said to Saul, 'Your servant used to look after the sheep for his father and whenever a lion or a bear came and took a sheep from the flock,
35 I used to follow it up, lay into it and snatch the sheep out of its jaws. If it turned on me, I would seize it by the beard and batter it to death. 36 Your servant has killed both lion and bear, and this uncircumcised Philistine will end up like one of them for having challenged the armies of the living God.'

Taken more or less literally, this would mean that David, though being comparatively young (whatever that meant at the time), must have been (or wanted to appear?) unusually strong and skillful. I find it interesting that he does not mention the sling in the context of guarding the sheep, but only his close (unarmed) wrestling with the predators.

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Noch weiz ich an im mere daz mir ist bekant
einen lintrachen slouch des heledes hant
do badet er in dem blvote des ist der helt gemeit
von also vester hvte daz in nie wafen sit versneit.

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Rat Man

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Re: David & Goliath overlooked variable. xxkid123
Reply #7 - Dec 23^rd, 2009 at 8:17pm

Probably because the sling wasn't considered as manly as fighting at close quarters I imagine. I'd say grabbing a lion by the beard and battering it to death is rather manly. I'd use a sling for sure. My longest range sling.
I'm not a bible scholar by any stretch of the imagination, but from what I've read David's age at the time seemed to be around eighteen. Though shooting through the only open spot in Goliath's helmet was an excellent shot I'm sure that David practiced with the sling every day of his life since he was a toddler. It's not surprising that he was capable of making a shot like that.
Is there any way to make a video of you slinging, kid? Perhaps if we could see you're technique we could give you some fine tuning tips that would increase your power.

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echelon7 Descens Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 144	Re: David & Goliath overlooked variable. xxkid123 Reply #8 - Dec 23^rd, 2009 at 8:18pm while all of these legalisms do prove that someone could easily kill someone with a sling we are forgetting the most important factor ...GOD. and yes most theologians who look on a military stand point David would not have been a small boy in the since we know small boy.
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Thearos Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Take that Posts: 3437	Re: David & Goliath overlooked variable. xxkid123 Reply #9 - Dec 23^rd, 2009 at 8:26pm Get a Palestinian or Bedouin shepherd boy
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Re: David & Goliath overlooked variable. xxkid123
Reply #10 - Dec 23^rd, 2009 at 8:26pm

"Only a boy", implies David was less than 20, the age of manhood, not that he was necessarily short. Goliath is contrasted as an experienced, "warrior from his youth".

I also have found it fascinating that the sling does not get a mention at all in the preliminary discussions. The first indication that David intends to use his sling is when he selects the slingstones from the creek.

There is a video on YouTube including an alleged re-enactment showing a wimpy looking David pleading with Saul to be allowed to face Goliath with his sling. He nearly drops Saul's sword claiming, "it's so heavy". Yet David had no trouble pulling the sword from the fallen Goliath's scabbard and decapitating him.

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echelon7 Descens Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 144	Re: David & Goliath overlooked variable. xxkid123 Reply #11 - Dec 23^rd, 2009 at 8:46pm i dont mean to change the subject but i felt this fit. idk if anyone ahs seen this before but i think its hilarious. i love the band. but just watch it. its called bethlehemian rhapsody. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S17Mvfx2Z5g
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Rockman

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Re: David & Goliath overlooked variable. xxkid123
Reply #12 - Dec 23^rd, 2009 at 10:43pm

I was under the impression that David was literally a boy, since was not allowed to do battle and his brothers mocked him about caring for their father's sheep. I'm assuming that the Israelis needed as many men as possible when fighting the Philistines, so David was far too young to be an active warrior, otherwise they would've drafted him.

Also, I'm thinking that people from those days died young by our standards. What was a boy back then? From which to which age?

Probably a shepherd boy in some of the rural places in Peru would be a more appropriate approximation.

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Preserving the sling, mankind´s original Magnum. Rookie slingers are modern superheroes: Never far away from trouble. Rockman sling tutorial: http://slinging.org/index.php?page=how-to-make-a-rockman-sling---bruno-tosso

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Gullinbursti

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Re: David & Goliath overlooked variable. xxkid123
Reply #13 - Dec 25^th, 2009 at 12:05am

From what I've turned up, there's general controversy as to David's exact age at the time of killing Goliath, but it seems to be generally accepted that he was closer to 20 than 12. 17 appears to be roughly the median age agreed upon by most of the sources I've stumbled upon.

http://thetent.ws/Davidage.html

http://www.kingdavid.org/kingd1.html

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walter Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 2453	Re: David & Goliath overlooked variable. xxkid123 Reply #14 - Dec 25^th, 2009 at 11:21am It's strange how most Christians think of David as an almost prissy little kid wearing a skirt when in fact he was at least the 2nd tallest man in the kingdom, probably over 20 years old, charismatic and as cunning and fierce a fighter as the region had ever known. walter
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