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Where are the slings in Historical movies? (Read 58100 times)
Donnerschlag
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Re: Where are the slings in Historical movies?
Reply #15 - Sep 19th, 2009 at 9:45pm
 
I can only recall one movie in which I saw a sling being used; "Princess Mononoke".
Unfortunately, it was only one slinger who knocked one of the protagonists out (rock to the head). the slinger wasn't in the shot for more than 3 seconds or so.  Tongue
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TN.Frank
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Re: Where are the slings in Historical movies?
Reply #16 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 9:12pm
 
Come on, some of ya'll have to know a few more movies that have guys slingin' rocks at each other.  What about "10,000 B.C." ? Any slingers?
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Re: Where are the slings in Historical movies?
Reply #17 - Sep 20th, 2009 at 10:50pm
 
Stargate SG-1 the tv series has slingers in the Minoan episode.
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Pikåru wrote on Nov 19th, 2013 at 6:59pm:
Massi - WTF? It's called a sling. You use it to throw rocks farther and faster than you could otherwise. That's all. 
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Re: Where are the slings in Historical movies?
Reply #18 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 8:15am
 
Quote:
One difficulty would be training your extras to use a sling convincingly, when real slingers are so rare.


Yeah and having used a staff sling I can't help but feel that staff slingers may have played amuch greater part than most people believe.

It takes about 5 minutes to get pretty consistent with a staff sling to the point that you can sling serious distance in a straight line. That takes weeks to years with a hand sling.

I'm seriously wondering why they aren't mentioned in historical texts more. 
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timann
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Re: Where are the slings in Historical movies?
Reply #19 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 11:19am
 
"10 000" BC has no slings>Sad But it has a lot of other stupid stuff Sad.

The book "Kings Mirror", a Norwegian book from around the year 1200, suggest (if I remember it correctly)that the kings men should practice with, or at least try, the sling and the staff sling.
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Re: Where are the slings in Historical movies?
Reply #20 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 6:16pm
 
Curious Aardvark wrote on Sep 21st, 2009 at 8:15am:
Quote:
One difficulty would be training your extras to use a sling convincingly, when real slingers are so rare.


Yeah and having used a staff sling I can't help but feel that staff slingers may have played amuch greater part than most people believe.

It takes about 5 minutes to get pretty consistent with a staff sling to the point that you can sling serious distance in a straight line. That takes weeks to years with a hand sling.

I'm seriously wondering why they aren't mentioned in historical texts more.  


Absolutely agree and posted a question along those lines. When you consider that with a Brown Bess musket as used by the British army for around a century, hitting a man at 100 yds was a matter of pure chance it's a wonder that armies didn't use companies of staff slingers. They could stand virtually shoulder to shoulder and deliver a rate of fire superior to the musketeers for a fraction of the cost.
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Re: Where are the slings in Historical movies?
Reply #21 - Sep 21st, 2009 at 11:13pm
 
Aussie wrote on Sep 21st, 2009 at 6:16pm:
Curious Aardvark wrote on Sep 21st, 2009 at 8:15am:
Quote:
One difficulty would be training your extras to use a sling convincingly, when real slingers are so rare.


Yeah and having used a staff sling I can't help but feel that staff slingers may have played amuch greater part than most people believe.

It takes about 5 minutes to get pretty consistent with a staff sling to the point that you can sling serious distance in a straight line. That takes weeks to years with a hand sling.

I'm seriously wondering why they aren't mentioned in historical texts more.  


Absolutely agree and posted a question along those lines. When you consider that with a Brown Bess musket as used by the British army for around a century, hitting a man at 100 yds was a matter of pure chance it's a wonder that armies didn't use companies of staff slingers. They could stand virtually shoulder to shoulder and deliver a rate of fire superior to the musketeers for a fraction of the cost.


Because the soldiers would have to swing, instead of pointing in a straight line? Just guessing.
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Pikåru wrote on Nov 19th, 2013 at 6:59pm:
Massi - WTF? It's called a sling. You use it to throw rocks farther and faster than you could otherwise. That's all. 
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Re: Where are the slings in Historical movies?
Reply #22 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 11:53am
 
Aussie wrote on Sep 21st, 2009 at 6:16pm:
Curious Aardvark wrote on Sep 21st, 2009 at 8:15am:
Quote:
One difficulty would be training your extras to use a sling convincingly, when real slingers are so rare.


Yeah and having used a staff sling I can't help but feel that staff slingers may have played amuch greater part than most people believe.

It takes about 5 minutes to get pretty consistent with a staff sling to the point that you can sling serious distance in a straight line. That takes weeks to years with a hand sling.

I'm seriously wondering why they aren't mentioned in historical texts more.  


Absolutely agree and posted a question along those lines. When you consider that with a Brown Bess musket as used by the British army for around a century, hitting a man at 100 yds was a matter of pure chance it's a wonder that armies didn't use companies of staff slingers. They could stand virtually shoulder to shoulder and deliver a rate of fire superior to the musketeers for a fraction of the cost.


A staff sling superior to a gun?? HMMMmmmmmm Huh
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Re: Where are the slings in Historical movies?
Reply #23 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 2:12pm
 
When a sling can send a .690" round ball at 900-1000fps(typical musket velociety) then I'll believe that a staff sling would be better then a musket, until then I'll stick with the musket. That being said, if you can't get a musket a sling would be better then chuckin' rocks with your bare hands, a lot better.  Wink
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Re: Where are the slings in Historical movies?
Reply #24 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 2:23pm
 
Yeah i agree, cuz staff slings dont have as much velocity or range as normal slings. So a sling is more toward the powerful side rather than a staff sling. Some bp pistols only achieve 400 fps and slings can achieve speeds close to that and with heavier ammo. Staff slings cannot generate enough force as a normal sling, let alone a gun, ever, period.
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Re: Where are the slings in Historical movies?
Reply #25 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 4:25pm
 
In "Alexander" slingers are very shown during the battle at Gaugamela, when they come out from the spaces between the Makedonian phalanxes and Persían cavalry. But that scene is very short.

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Re: Where are the slings in Historical movies?
Reply #26 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 7:44pm
 
Mr. Boss wrote on Sep 22nd, 2009 at 2:23pm:
Yeah i agree, cuz staff slings dont have as much velocity or range as normal slings. So a sling is more toward the powerful side rather than a staff sling. Some bp pistols only achieve 400 fps and slings can achieve speeds close to that and with heavier ammo. Staff slings cannot generate enough force as a normal sling, let alone a gun, ever, period.


depends, in general for all of us who don't use mrboss slings it is better. for those who do use mrboss slings it's worse.
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Re: Where are the slings in Historical movies?
Reply #27 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 9:48pm
 
TN.Frank wrote on Sep 22nd, 2009 at 2:12pm:
When a sling can send a .690" round ball at 900-1000fps(typical musket velociety) then I'll believe that a staff sling would be better then a musket, until then I'll stick with the musket. That being said, if you can't get a musket a sling would be better then chuckin' rocks with your bare hands, a lot better.  Wink


You and mrboss have missed my point. Sure the musket ball would be travelling a lot faster and have more energy. But smoothbore muskets were notoriously inaccurate. Remember the expression, "Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes." How far would that be; 20 metres or so. The staff slingers would be hitting their marks from 100metres away and slinging their stones at twice the rate that the musketeers could reload their weapons. Accuracy and rate of fire would be more important than mere power.
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Re: Where are the slings in Historical movies?
Reply #28 - Sep 22nd, 2009 at 11:25pm
 
Having owned a couple three smoothbore muskets(2 Jackie Browns in .62 cal and one L.E. Williams in .75 cal) I can personally say that they're only as accurate as a person loads em' to be.  Sure, in a Millitary setting with very lose ball and patch they'll shoot miniute of barn at 50 yrds. but if you load em' up with a tight ball and patch they're on par with a rifle out to 50 yrds and maybe a bit further. The main problem with em' is the lack of sights.  I've seen guys print groups the size of a softball out to 100 yrds. with a properly loaded smooth bore musket that had sights on it.  Just like with slings, practice and the proper load can make a world of difference in accuracy. I'm sure that in a survival situation the sling would probably be a better "weapon" because you can pick up your ammo from a creek bed or from other natural sorces and it's a lot quiter too.  Plus you can't fold up a musket and stick it in your pocket, LOL.  Wink
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Re: Where are the slings in Historical movies?
Reply #29 - Sep 23rd, 2009 at 2:00am
 
I bow to your superior knowledge of the musket's capability. Of course all of this is purely theoretical as no such battle has probably ever occurred in history. However if a company of staff slingers and a company of musketmen of the Napoleonic era were to face off on open ground I don't think the odds would be nearly as much in favour of the musketmen as people would generally think.

Some time ago we had a lively discussion here on the relative merits of slingers v archers. One of the opinions was that archers replaced slingers because of the inordinate time required to train effective slingers. Another factor which go against the slingers is that they require a lot more individual space than archers who can stand shoulder to shoulder and bring very concentrated fire to bear on an enemy position.

Subsequently several members have been experimenting with staff slings and have generally found that the learning curve for staff slinging is much quicker with reasonable accuracy attainable in a single learning session. Also though it may not shoot as far as the hand sling it also appears that larger rocks can be launched more easily. With only an overhead sweeping motion I surmise that a company of trained staff slingers could stand much closer together than ordinary slingers and have the same advantage of concentrated fire enjoyed by the archers as well as the major advantage of being trained much more quickly than either archers or ordinary slingers. I asked our historically minded members whether staff slingers were ever used that way in open warfare. The use of the staff sling in siege and naval warfare is generally wll documented.

Hence the musing whether such staff slingers could hold their own against smoothbore firearms. I suspect the musketmen would be horrified when fist sized rocks started raining down on them when they were still too far away to reliably return the fire. But perhaps the alleged inaccuracy of these old guns has been overstated. Softball sized groups at 100m is impressive with any weapon, rifled or smoothbore.
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