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Eoraptor

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Re: Hunting
Reply #45 - Jun 24^th, 2009 at 1:17pm

Bows and arrows have been used to take down big game too. Resently, arceologists have discovered that what they had assumed where fish spears where actualy used for hunting elk (or rindeer, or caribou, whatever they are called in that area, I keep getting them mixed up Embarrassed

) by mounting them on the tip an arrow. They are carved of bone, and look like fish spears, but I haven't actually seen one of the origional ones, only a recreation. Aparently they were found when glaciers retreated somewhere in northern Eroupe, and where found still attached to arrows with traces of caribou blood.

Hmmm... I know how sketchy that sounds, but it is, to the best of my knowlage, true. Although I can't find anything about it on the internet, and that makes me wary. It came to me through the archaeological grape vine (it is extensive Shocked

) and they are seldom wrong... I believe it is true, or I woulden't have passed it along... but if I where you I wouldn't buy it inless you have two scources... so I guess I should actualy be asking if anyone else heard of this?

Sorry if that's confusing, it just kinda evolved with my train of thought...

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"The very fact that there is life here at all, and that everything that's alive today, is so, because everything else passed away." -Jack Horner
"Once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return."
"Yet the finer they were the frailer; the cleverer, the more wrong-headed." -North

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Fundibularius

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Re: Hunting
Reply #46 - Jun 24^th, 2009 at 1:36pm

Sorry, I did not express it clear enough. I did not want to say that you cannot bring down big game with bow and arrow - just look at how North American tribes hunted buffalo in the 18th and 19th century; I think it was Catlin or the Prince of Wied who reported that some Plains Indians could kill a buffalo with a spear or even a knife only.

What I meant was that the atlatl (or spear thrower, which is the more common term in Europe) was an excellent hunting weapon during the last Ice Age, but it became inferior to the bow (which, by the way, had probably been invented in paleolithic times already) when the vegetation of the continent changed to woodland in the mesolithic era.

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Ferrugo numquam dormit.&&(Nigellus Iuvenis)&&&&

Noch weiz ich an im mere daz mir ist bekant
einen lintrachen slouch des heledes hant
do badet er in dem blvote des ist der helt gemeit
von also vester hvte daz in nie wafen sit versneit.

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David Morningstar

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Slinging Rocks!

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Re: Hunting
Reply #47 - Jun 24^th, 2009 at 1:57pm

Fundibularius wrote on Jun 24^th, 2009 at 8:37am:

Agreed. In Europe, the atlatl vanishes with the end of the ice age and the disappearance of wide, open tundras as well as of great herds of big animals (esp. mammoth and reindeer). After that, in the Mesolithic, great parts of the continent were woodland with a greater variety of animals, but smaller groups (deer, boars etc). A great time for bowhunters, but an atlatlist with darts that were longer than he himself on his back or his hand would have had less chances to move silently through the thicket.

The bow is better than the atlatl for one important reason - there is less time for the prey to react because the launch is instant and the flight is quicker. The practical hunting range of the atlatl is much less than the bow because of the need to get inside the preys reaction time. A dart can be thrown accurately to 20 yards or more but any animal not asleep on its feet will be gone before it gets hit.

Quote:

One great advantage of the atlatl was, in my opinion, its ability to bring down even big game with one hit. A reindeer hit by an atlatl dart would probably be swept off its feet by the impact only, even if the shot itself were not lethal. This would give the hunter time to approach and finish it off with a club or something else. Accuracy was probably not so important, especially when the hunters were aiming at large groups of animals.

Bwahahahhaha! No.

Archeologically recovered atlatl darts used to hunt Caribou in Canada were 5 1/2 to 6 feet long and quite lightly constructed. The points they were carrying are indistingushable from those on the arrows that replaced them.

http://pubs.aina.ucalgary.ca/arctic/Arctic57-3-260.pdf

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David Morningstar

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Re: Hunting
Reply #48 - Jun 24^th, 2009 at 2:04pm

Fundibularius wrote on Jun 24^th, 2009 at 1:36pm:

What I meant was that the atlatl (or spear thrower, which is the more common term in Europe) was an excellent hunting weapon during the last Ice Age, but it became inferior to the bow (which, by the way, had probably been invented in paleolithic times already) when the vegetation of the continent changed to woodland in the mesolithic era.

Again I would disagree. Wherever the bow has appeared it immediately displaces the atlatl with odd specific exceptions (one handed use from kayaks, ritual use for Aztecs due to atlatl carvings on ancient temples).

The sling has survived and been used alongside the bow or instead of the bow all over the world, but the atlatl vanishes. Australia is the exception that proves the rule since it has neither sling nor bow, and the spearthrower survived there.

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Liberty dog

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south carolina, usa
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Re: Hunting
Reply #49 - Jun 24^th, 2009 at 10:39pm

xxkid123 wrote on Jun 24^th, 2009 at 11:42am:

truthfully, the rabbits in my place could be caught by hand, just stalk up without looking until your about 3-5 feet away, then dash and catch it. if you wanted to hunt it you would be better off using the sling as a club.

have somewhat the same trouble here as well...... bunnies all over the road. most of my hunting this year will mostly be done with my truck Grin

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illumination through target annihilation&&&&moving continents one rock at a time&&&&my sling aches with inaction&&&&hit.....run....hide......the Highland way.

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the_warrior_yeti

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Re: Hunting
Reply #50 - Jun 27^th, 2009 at 12:14am

Eoraptor,

You aren't mislead. I've also heard of bone harpoons having been used on land mammals in Europe, but not on arrows, on atlatl darts. In France I went to an atlatl competition and met a friend, Pascal Chauvaux, who has been into recreating Magdalenian spear throwers and competing with them for some time. He loves to replicate them, and knows a much about it as anyone, if not more. That's when I first heard of the harpoons, and it may also be in the Stodeik Thesis. Perhaps the tactic was to attach a rope to a weighted sled, and the other to the dart or arrow, similar to attaching a bladder to a harpoon for seals. That's just a speculation on my part, but to my mind this tactic would be more effective when ambushing a running herd of reindeer that were being driven by your location. Making a shot to the vitals on a single animal would be difficult, but this way you could simply throw at the herd in general, then your quarry is much easier to catch, and so exhausted from hauling the weight that it puts up no fight.

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Eoraptor Funditor Offline Aim small, miss small. Posts: 936 Great Lakes Region (USA) Gender:	Re: Hunting Reply #51 - Jun 27^th, 2009 at 9:28pm Thanks for the followup warrior yeti, I don't know why I coulden't find any of that on the internet... @Fundibularius: Sorry for the missunderstanding, I tend to do that a lot
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johnny cott Tiro Offline just an old fireman with time on his hands Posts: 25	Re: Hunting Reply #52 - Jun 29^th, 2009 at 2:15pm I have been out in the country after rabbits annd so far I have had no luck hitting any rabbits when I do I will let you know
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Chuckaduck Junior Member Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 51 Gender:	Re: Hunting Reply #53 - Jan 29^th, 2011 at 6:09pm meep sorry for the necro
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paracordslinger Senior Member Offline Paid by the hour, Older by the minute Posts: 445 kansas Gender:	Re: Hunting Reply #54 - Mar 15^th, 2011 at 4:45pm it seems as though none of you really think hunting is good. what i say is that if you are in season, and have permission, sling ant thumper as hard as you can and hope it hits him!
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Rat Man Slinging.org Administrator Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 13821 New Jersey, USA Gender:	Re: Hunting Reply #55 - Mar 15^th, 2011 at 10:40pm Though a few of us here are anti-hunting, I think most of us are fine with it. A lot of us feel that we lack the accuracy to hunt with a sling and get a good, clean kill. We don't want to go off maiming animals. I used to hunt when I was younger but lost interest in it. I've never hunted with a sling.
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paracordslinger Senior Member Offline Paid by the hour, Older by the minute Posts: 445 kansas Gender:	Re: Hunting Reply #56 - Mar 16^th, 2011 at 10:29am if you maim an animal, then it should be slow enough for you either to get amother shot, or run in and slit is little throat! but im pretty sure that a fist sized rock hitting just about anything would either kill, or stun the animal long emough for you to end him!
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Rat Man

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Re: Hunting
Reply #57 - Mar 16^th, 2011 at 4:33pm

Unless I move, I won't be able to test that theory. The sling is not a legal hunting weapon in my state, New Jersey. I did look into what it would take to get the sling approved here. Trust me, it aint happenin'. I would hunt illegally with a sling if there was some sort of emergency situation and my family and I faced starvation. I imagine a flock of ducks or geese sitting on a lake or a squirrels' nest would be targets where success was likely. Thumper would be a difficult target, IMO. Shooting both water foul at rest and squirrels in their nests are illegal and considered unsportsman-like here, but if we were starving I wouldn't care.

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« Last Edit: Mar 17^th, 2011 at 12:12pm by Rat Man »

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nwmanitou Senior Member Offline Posts: 335 Utah, USA Gender:	Re: Hunting Reply #58 - Mar 16^th, 2011 at 6:07pm There are many unprotected species you can hunt with any weapon. Over here jack rabbits, coyote, asian collared dove, grey squirrels and a few others are unprotected and are either considered vermin or invasive. Soon as I get a chance I'll go out and see if I can video me taking a jack rabbit with a sling.
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Rat Man Slinging.org Administrator Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 13821 New Jersey, USA Gender:	Re: Hunting Reply #59 - Mar 17^th, 2011 at 12:14pm My state is very law-happy and even animals considered vermin can only be taken certain ways at certain times. It seems the more populated an area the more laws you end up with. If I was hungry I'd say to heck with laws.
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