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Hunting (Read 38584 times)
Typhon
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Re: Hunting
Reply #30 - Jun 21st, 2009 at 4:33am
 
Corvid wrote on Jun 15th, 2009 at 7:17am:
i agree that respect for prey is important - Do you think that respect makes for a better hunter?

Yes.








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Typhon
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Re: Hunting
Reply #31 - Jun 21st, 2009 at 4:39am
 
It is necessary to respect the prey, yourself and your weapon when hunting.
Lose any one of these and you lose a lot of the experience of a hunt.
I don't mean you have to become all mystical about it, but know what you're doing when you kill (harvest if you must use a PC term/euphemism). Typhon.
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Typhon
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Re: Hunting
Reply #32 - Jun 21st, 2009 at 5:03am
 
Gentlemen. I believe that both nwmanitou and kuggar sling dog are correct [i]when taken in context[/i].
nw manitou takes the atitude that ANY decent hit with a reasonably weighted sling projectile will immobilise the or kill the rabbit, he also points out that a wounded animal can result with ANY weapon. I have shot rabbits with a .22 and can only remember 1 case where the rabbit escaped after I shot it, I rushed the shot and hit too far back. That was more than 25 years ago and I still remember it. It is to my shame that it happened but, to get some good out of the experience, it has made me a MUCH more careful shot.
What nwmanitou has not said but I take from context is that he is NOT saying,desppite his wording, take shots that are unworkable. I understood him to mean that if one has a nice clean shot at reasonable range, and having a reasonable chance to hit solidly, there is no reason not to have a shot.
kuggar sling dog is also correct when he says one should only try to take living animals when one is SURE on one's ability to do so cleanly. He rightly has reservations about his skill(Gods know I have resevations about mine with a sling)to kill cleanly, and is forthright about stating his case. It is not a good thing to let an animal escape wounded and I've spent a bit of time hunting down wounded animals my self, mostly other peoples when a shot went wrong.
Both sides here have valid points, yet I doubt that there is really an argument here, because neither side argues that a shot should be taken in anything but optimal circumstances.  Regards  Typhon.
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Typhon
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Re: Hunting
Reply #33 - Jun 21st, 2009 at 5:16am
 
Regarding hunting Feral Pigs, or the wild pigs/javalinas of the Americas.
There is no way on earth or off it you'd find me sling a shot, lead, steel or those broad head tipped beauties mentioned in the "Big Game" thread, at a pig. Pigs have shrugged off .303 hits in the head and shoulder area. The .303 is more powerful than the .30/40 Krag for those of you who are familiar with this older American military round.
Head shots.
Head shots can be tricky with anything, I've taken various animals with head shots and it is a shot I like if I can get it. BUT it is usually taken from a nice steady possie if it is over 25 yards away or even under if I have a rest available. It is the cleanest of all kills if possible. As a side point I know where the brain is of anything I'm likely to shoot so I don't shoot at the head. I shoot at the brain or I take a shot at the heart lung group if I'm shooting off hand and I keep off hand shots under 30 yards. I've lost a few shots that way but I'd rather lose a shot than wound an animal. These are my thoughts on the matter, and as some one else said in anither thread I'm not trying to shove them down anyone's throat.  Typhon.
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Rat Man
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Re: Hunting
Reply #34 - Jun 21st, 2009 at 11:14am
 
Corvid wrote on Jun 15th, 2009 at 7:17am:
Hey cool to hear from you all - Interesting that Neander97 speaks of stalking rabbits, where i live the rabbits are everywhere and you can in a lot of cases walk within a few feet of them, There not Horrible swollen eyed Miximtosis rabbits, which i used to see a lot of when i was younger, I think their just used to humans and not being hunted.

I think i agree with Rat man, I don't have the skill, at the moment to feel comfortable using a sling to hunt, but having that skill must be grand. I have very little hunting experience at all but i agree that respect for prey is important - Do you think that respect makes for a better hunter?

I am no where near the skill level that would allow me to effectively hunt, but as you say, having that skill must be grand.  That is my goal.  I want to be as efficient with my sling as I was with my single shot 12 gauge shotgun.  Even if I don't regularly use it to hunt, I'd love to have the ability in case it's  ever necessary.   Do I think having respect for the prey makes one a better hunter?  Yes, for many reasons.  A practical one is that one who respects his prey would be less apt to waste the resource.  This would help facilitate better hunting in the future, both long and short term. 
   There are other reasons, but I have to think about how to put them to words.








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Rat Man
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Re: Hunting
Reply #35 - Jun 21st, 2009 at 11:19am
 
That last message is a bit messed up.  It looks like a quote from Corvid, but the last paragraph is me, Rat Man.
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nwmanitou
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Re: Hunting
Reply #36 - Jun 21st, 2009 at 8:10pm
 
Typhoon has the right idea..


A hunter should never unnecessarily risk only wounding an animal by taking shots beyond their skill level. To do so is not only disrespectful to the prey but irresponsible, dangerous, and unethical. However, when talking about small, delicate game like rabbits, the chances of only wounding it with a sling stone are very small. If you hit a rabbit just about anywhere with a sling stone you are going to kill it. So you will either hit and kill the rabbit or miss entirely. Both outcomes are acceptable in my book. If you miss, the rabbit will run off or often doesn't even realize it was shot at. If you hit it, you have a good meal. Life is precious and when I harvest (kill) an animal I accept the sacred responsibility to effectively utilize that animal. I think we all agree that a sling stone is sufficient to kill small game like rabbits and that no one here thinks it's ok to unnecessarily risk wounding an animal. We just have to accept that killing (harvesting) game isn't as immediate as flipping a switch but if reasonable steps have been taken to ensure a humane kill then I see no problem in the attempt.

Am I confident that I'd hit the rabbit with my sling? not really, though I might be able nail one  if I had enough opportunities. Am I confident that if I did manage hit the rabbit it would die on the spot with minimal suffering? absolutely. Again I am either going to hit and kill it or I'm going to miss entirely. In this case I don't feel that I'm unnecessarily risking just wounding the rabbit taking shots that I'm not completely sure will connect.

PS.
Tougher or larger game are different than delicate little bunnies. When rifle hunting I prefer to neck shoot my deer, just behind the jaw. I shatter the spine, the jugular vein, and carotid artery which drops it on the spot with out wasting hardly any meat. If I can't get a clear neck shot, I aim for the traditional heart and lungs. My opinion is that many hunters compensate for poor marksmanship with larger caliber rifles, I'm sure most just enjoy the better ballistic performance of these larger rounds, but there is faulty notion that you NEED a huge cartridge to reliably bring down a deer when more emphasis should be placed on shot placement. Often this notion results in loosing a significant amounts of meat to bullet damage (bloodshot). I learned my lesson when I used a load that was too hot for the young deer I shot. I hit it where I wanted to, but then the bullet traveled the length of its body destroying the tenderloin and a good portion of one of the rear quarters. I like that particular cartridge because of the the energy it can deliver at longer ranges but for smaller deer I'm not going to take a body shot with it if I can get a neck shot. When bowhunting (for elk this year) I only take shots under 30 yards because that's as far as I feel confident that I can place the arrow in the heart and lungs for a clean humane kill.

Also, I think you'd be crazy to go after a boar with a sling. A knife? sure, I'd do it (already killed several farm boars with one...mmmm kalua pig), and my boar spear is waiting for an opportunity. But if you do try to go after a dangerous animal with a sling YOU MUST VIDEO TAPE IT or we won't believe you, or your next of kin.
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Re: Hunting
Reply #37 - Jun 22nd, 2009 at 8:02am
 
Just for the record, my "wild boar" recommendation was a joke. Never thought anybody would even consider it  Grin.
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Corvid
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Re: Hunting
Reply #38 - Jun 22nd, 2009 at 8:11am
 
With whats been said about the sling being an effective way to kill small animals/birds - If the hunter is skilled or lucky - and the diffculty of bringing down large game due to increased muscle and bone mass whats the next "primative" weapon up from the sling for distance killing - Spear or Bow?
I'm thinking Spear, it seems to me to have the advantage of simplicity - any thoughts?
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Steven
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Re: Hunting
Reply #39 - Jun 22nd, 2009 at 8:20am
 
Spear is  too heavy and too short ranged .... Atlatl  followed by bow and arrow, and then the spear for heavier game.

There is a video on the web of a 7yr. old taking a deer with atlatl so you do not have to especially strong to use it.

A medium sized game class of hunting bow requires some amount of strength to use. And a spear because of its weight ; requires a good amount of strength to cast and a lot of strength to stab.
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nwmanitou
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Re: Hunting
Reply #40 - Jun 22nd, 2009 at 3:49pm
 
I agree with Steven... Atlatl then the Bow. Spears were up close and personal.


Well, on my walk today I saw a big squirrel on a boulder. I got up to about 20 yards and figured I'd take a shot. There were no nice smooth stones to be had so I had to settle for a jagged block of sorts. I was slinging all day Saturday so my arm is really sore; I have a rotator cuff injury that'll probably require surgery at some point. But anyways, I let the stone fly and it hit about 8 inches to the right of the squirrel on another boulder slightly closer to me. The critter didn't even flinch. The stone turned to dust and I'm sure had I hit the squirrel it would have torn it in half. It decided to disappear into the pile of boulders while I was looking for another stone. Had my aim been just a hair to the left I would have had a squirrel for lunch, or at the very least, fed it to the family of ravens that nests near by (they follow me around when I'm hiking). So it can be done. I was surprised that the squirrel stood still for me. 20 yards seems to be about the limit though, I got just a few feet closer while looking for another stone and it decided to bolt.
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Corvid
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Re: Hunting
Reply #41 - Jun 24th, 2009 at 6:35am
 
Atlatl then Bow then spear? Not Bow then Atlatl then Spear? There must be some advantage of Bow over atlatl, The bow seems to have taken the place of the Atlatl in a lot of cultures, wonder why?

Does that mean the sling is consigned to small game or through skill and/or modification can it be used for larger game or are you more likley to end up with an injured animal that you've then got to chase and dispatch some other way?.

@nwmanitou - I love Ravens, i've only seen them in the highlands a couple of times but cool birds - some nasty habits but you gotta admire there inteligence.
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Steven
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Re: Hunting
Reply #42 - Jun 24th, 2009 at 8:06am
 
sling, atlatl, bow order .... ease of construction and ease of use .... a good bow is not easy to construct or use.
I think the bow replaced atlatl because it is  easier to move through and use in brush , a lot more ammo can be easily carried and it out ranges atlatl for aimed fire.
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Re: Hunting
Reply #43 - Jun 24th, 2009 at 8:37am
 
Steven wrote on Jun 24th, 2009 at 8:06am:
I think the bow replaced atlatl because it is  easier to move through and use in brush , a lot more ammo can be easily carried and it out ranges atlatl for aimed fire.


Agreed. In Europe, the atlatl vanishes with the end of the ice age and the disappearance of wide, open tundras as well as of great herds of big animals (esp. mammoth and reindeer). After that, in the Mesolithic, great parts of the continent were woodland with a greater variety of animals, but smaller groups (deer, boars etc). A great time for bowhunters, but an atlatlist with darts that were longer than he himself on his back or his hand would have had less chances to move silently through the thicket.

One great advantage of the atlatl was, in my opinion, its ability to bring down even big game with one hit. A reindeer hit by an atlatl dart would probably be swept off its feet by the impact only, even if the shot itself were not lethal. This would give the hunter time to approach and finish it off with a club or something else. Accuracy was probably not so important, especially when the hunters were aiming at large groups of animals.


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Re: Hunting
Reply #44 - Jun 24th, 2009 at 11:42am
 
truthfully, the rabbits in my place could be caught by hand, just stalk up without looking until your about 3-5 feet away, then dash and catch it. if you wanted to hunt it you would be better off using the sling as a club.
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