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Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC) (Read 22178 times)
wanderer
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Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC
Reply #30 - Jun 9th, 2009 at 9:43pm
 
winkleried wrote on Jun 6th, 2009 at 2:30am:
Showed several fiber arts experts theCortaillod sling pic. They were unanamous in saying based on the age and details that the sketch showed that it was nalbound.

Marc Adkins

Marc,

Do you remember the argument which  led them to this conclusion? I had considered this, but it seemed to me rather unlikely. Worth making a pouch that way, but why were they so definitive about it?
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winkleried
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Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC
Reply #31 - Jun 9th, 2009 at 11:41pm
 
Based on the Age of the artifact and the details of the illustration that we have. I was way too early for knitting as we know it. They were talking about some sort of primitive (Early) type of nalbinding.........
Not really my area sorry don't have much

Marc Adkins

wanderer wrote on Jun 9th, 2009 at 9:43pm:
winkleried wrote on Jun 6th, 2009 at 2:30am:
Showed several fiber arts experts theCortaillod sling pic. They were unanamous in saying based on the age and details that the sketch showed that it was nalbound.

Marc Adkins

Marc,

Do you remember the argument which  led them to this conclusion? I had considered this, but it seemed to me rather unlikely. Worth making a pouch that way, but why were they so definitive about it?

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Timothy Potter
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Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC
Reply #32 - Jun 9th, 2009 at 11:55pm
 
winkleried wrote on Jun 6th, 2009 at 2:30am:
Showed several fiber arts experts theCortaillod sling pic. They were unanamous in saying based on the age and details that the sketch showed that it was nalbound.

Marc Adkins


Thanks for the post, Marc

This is the first time I've heard the term "Nalbinding", although I've seen some of the techniques used in horsehair work, and in Peruvian and Pacific textiles. After a long web search, I think that the sling might have been made with nalbinding, but I'm not sure. I did see a couple of nalbinding stitches that produce a texture similar to the one in the sketch. I still think the border structure might provide the key to the construction. If the sling could be reproduced using the different possible techniques (knitting, weaving with twined wefts or warps, nalbinding) the borders could be compared to the sketch to see how they matched. Based on the examples of nalbinding I saw online, I still might lean toward a twined woven structure, although I'm by no means sure. In any case I think I'll try to learn nalbinding. It seems like a very useful technique for making all sorts of things, including slings, and it might give me a way to use up some of my surplus knitting yarn.

-Timothy Potter
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Timothy Potter
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Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC
Reply #33 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 5:06pm
 
Well, I tried an experiment today with knitting. I knit a pouch out of some linen rug warp I had on hand to see how it would come out. I still can't say one way or the other whether the original was knitted, but I can say that it wasn't knitted the way I tried to do it. Some features of my test look like they match the original, and some don't.

Aside from looking somewhat sloppier than I'd envisioned, the shape is much too short for how long it is. This could easily be fixed by knitting more rows between increases, but the problem is that the borders on the original are even and continuous, so whatever is done at the edges would have to be done every row. Unless of course the borders were made after the center part, in which case my idea of comparing different samples would not work since the same border could be put on any type of center. The borders of my test don't match the sketch, although they do bare a slight resemblance.

One thing that did seem to match was the end of the pouch when I finished the decreases. The first photo shows this stage, and I think that it does look similar to the sketch.

A note on the stubs of the cords:

Assuming that the little piece of cord pictured above the sketch is from the sling, I used a technique that I learned from the Ashley Book of Knots, in the chapter on chain sinnets. It's a sort of two-stitch knit-like chain that is almost impossible to tell apart from an 8-strand square braid without examining the internal structure. Looking at the sketch, it seems that the cord was made with loops, and since this type of chaining transitions to and from knitting with ease, I opted to use it.

...

...

...

It’s a pity we can't look at the reverse side of the sling, because that would be a dead give away to the construction.

Comments and criticisms are most welcome.

-Timothy Potter
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Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC
Reply #34 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 6:02pm
 
Looks pretty neat to me !
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Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC
Reply #35 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 6:12pm
 
Doing a quick mental comparision between the sketch we have and the sling that you created I wouldn't kick it out of a historical competition that i was running Smiley

Hopefully after I get some stuff on the Gdansk sling done, this sling is on my to do list.  Should start learning nalbinding here in a couple of months and see how that technique works for this.

Marc Adkins
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Timothy Potter
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Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC
Reply #36 - Jun 13th, 2009 at 7:11pm
 
OK, a bit more on the cords. I had forgotten what the technique was called, but I remembered that when I was at Lacis, in Berkley, California, I had seen a book on the subject. So I went to Lacis.com and looked in the braiding section for the book. I found that the technique is called lucet braiding, and is made with a two pronged device called a lucet. I think that it's an interesting technique, and has a lot of potential for sling cords. Here's a video of how to do it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y5K7FiT2Og

When I did the short bits on my sling sample, I did them with my fingers. After watching that video, I think I'll make myself a lucet, since the lady in the video is going about 5 timed faster than I was. This technique might work well with nalbinding, since both are worked with a single string.

Here's another theory: If several of these lucet cords are placed side by side, they will produce a surface with the same texture that is shown in the sketch. It would be like the Tibetan slings that have multiple 8-strand braids sewn together. The border of the pouch could be the result of the sewing method. I doubt this is actually the way the sling was made, but it's fun to speculate.

-Timothy Potter

P.S. Lacis usually has a copy of Sling Braiding of the Andes for sale. That's where my copies came from.
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« Last Edit: Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:41pm by Timothy Potter »  

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Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC
Reply #37 - Jul 15th, 2009 at 12:38pm
 
With the pouch try slipping one stitch purlwise at the beginning of every row. It is the same, which is what you were looking for, and it produces a curl for thicker edges. It was in Matthias's instructions and is what I do. I don't think it matches the cortaillod sling but it is a good jumping off point.
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Pikåru wrote on Nov 19th, 2013 at 6:59pm:
Massi - WTF? It's called a sling. You use it to throw rocks farther and faster than you could otherwise. That's all. 
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Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC
Reply #38 - Jul 30th, 2009 at 9:39pm
 
I don't know if this is of any interest to anyone but it mentions the Cortaillod sling as well as some other interesting things:
http://books.google.com/books?id=OsGBAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA372&lpg=PA372&dq=cortaillod+s...
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Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC
Reply #39 - Jan 4th, 2010 at 1:54pm
 
I have just noticed that there is a scan of an English translation of Keller's work on "The Lake Dwellings of Switzerland...." which is the source for the illustration of the Cortaillod sling. Freely downloadable for those who wish it/

Very little discussion of the sling in the text, but more extensive discussion of a number of other fabric artifacts, for those who are interested Smiley.

The sling is on plate LXXXVI (nr.86). The plates are towards the back of the book.

http://books.google.com/books?id=ILQLAQAAIAAJ&dq=flax%20sling&lr=&as_brr=1&pg=PR...
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Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC
Reply #40 - Jan 4th, 2010 at 9:17pm
 
Thanks for the link, wanderer.

For the convenience of anyone else who looks this up, the sling illustration is on page 397.

It's interesting that Plate XCIV shows a device that looks a lot like a lucet. But I looked up the dimensions of the book on amazon.com, and based on the fact that the plate has the tool drawn to 1/4 scale, the tool would be about 8 in. long; rather big for a lucet.

When I get the time, I would like to read through the parts of the book on flax manufacture and weaving to get some idea of what techniques were used at the time, and then maybe I'd have some more ideas for how the sling was made.

-Timothy Potter
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Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC
Reply #41 - Jan 8th, 2010 at 9:11am
 
How quaint it is, that even in 2010 when flying cars and implants were meant to be the done thing, we still "spin yarns" and "post threads" Wink .

Not to string anyone along, now...

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