Slinging.org Forum - Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC)

Masiakasaurus

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Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC
Reply #15 - Apr 13^th, 2009 at 11:30pm

I have now knit two slings, and from my inexpert opinion the cord used to knit that pouch, if it was knit, must have been extremely thin to maintain the thread-count and small hole diameter shown in the diagram. Does anyone know how accurate that sketch is? Could the art, and not the archeologist, be wrong?

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Pikåru wrote on Nov 19^th, 2013 at 6:59pm:

Massi - WTF? It's called a sling. You use it to throw rocks farther and faster than you could otherwise. That's all.
~Engineers like to solve problems. If there are no problems handily avialable, they will create their own problems.~

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winkleried

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Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC
Reply #16 - Apr 13^th, 2009 at 11:34pm

The sketch is all we have, we don't even know the size of the pouch

Marc Adkins

Masiakasaurus wrote on Apr 13^th, 2009 at 11:30pm:

I have now knit two slings, and from my inexpert opinion the cord used to knit that pouch must have been very thin to maintain the thread-count and small hole diameter shown in the diagram. Does anyone know how accurate that sketch is?

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wanderer

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Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC
Reply #17 - Apr 14^th, 2009 at 7:08am

Masiakasaurus wrote on Apr 13^th, 2009 at 11:30pm:

I have now knit two slings, and from my inexpert opinion the cord used to knit that pouch, if it was knit, must have been extremely thin to maintain the thread-count and small hole diameter shown in the diagram. Does anyone know how accurate that sketch is? Could the art, and not the archeologist, be wrong?

I rather doubt that the pocket was truly knitted, despite the use of the German. Such a pocket is easily unraveled if the cord breaks or wears through, which I would have thought a design flaw for a sling.

Evidently the pocket is not a 'plain weave'. I would guess that it was twined with a pair of wefts. A shame there was not an illustration of the other side, which would answer a lot of questions.

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funda_iucunda

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Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC
Reply #18 - Apr 16^th, 2009 at 3:58pm

Sad news: In the meantime I got into contact with the Museum Schwab in Biel in Switzerland. This museum hosts the collection of the Swizz officer Schwab who collected many objects during the second half of 19th century. The sling we talk about is part of this collection but recently it is not possible to find it. Due to the fact that in 19th century archeology the preservation of findings was not very well developed we have to face the possibility that this sling has been already lost since decades. Embarrassed

However, due to an oral information I got the size of the pouch is round about 5 to 10 cm.
I conclude from this that all we can try is an approach to a reconstruction. In any case it would not have been an exact reconstruction as neither the retention loop nor the full lenght of any of the cords had been found.

funda iucunda

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winkleried

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Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC
Reply #19 - Apr 17^th, 2009 at 12:10am

Somehow I always knew that was possibility, But having the length of the pouch is a step in the right direction in creating a best guess replica.

Marc Adkins

funda_iucunda wrote on Apr 16^th, 2009 at 3:58pm:

Sad news: In the meantime I got into contact with the Museum Schwab in Biel in Switzerland. This museum hosts the collection of the Swizz officer Schwab who collected many objects during the second half of 19th century. The sling we talk about is part of this collection but recently it is not possible to find it. Due to the fact that in 19th century archeology the preservation of findings was not very well developed we have to face the possibility that this sling has been already lost since decades. Embarrassed

However, due to an oral information I got the size of the pouch is round about 5 to 10 cm.
I conclude from this that all we can try is an approach to a reconstruction. In any case it would not have been an exact reconstruction as neither the retention loop nor the full lenght of any of the cords had been found.

funda iucunda

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Timothy Potter

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Re: Cortaillod sling(Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC)
Reply #20 - Apr 29^th, 2009 at 1:38am

I've been working on a tablet weaving project recently, and I noticed a picture of a Bronze-Age warp-twined band in a tablet weaving book. Although the exact method of construction is unknown, it was pointed out in the book that the band could have been woven with two-hole tablets. The structure of the band had alternating twists to adjacent pairs of warp threads giving the surface of the band the appearance of being knit. The idea of a tablet-woven sling has occurred to me before, but this is the first sling that I have seen that might have been made this way.

Has anyone tried making a tablet woven sling?

I guess the way to tell if the Cortaillod sling could have been tablet woven would be to compare the way the threads look at the edges of the pouch with a tablet woven sample.

Wish I had more time right now for experiments.

-Timothy Potter

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wanderer

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Re: Cortaillod sling(Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC)
Reply #21 - Apr 29^th, 2009 at 1:21pm

Timothy Potter wrote on Apr 29^th, 2009 at 1:38am:

I've been working on a tablet weaving project recently, and I noticed a picture of a Bronze-Age warp-twined band in a tablet weaving book. Although the exact method of construction is unknown, it was pointed out in the book that the band could have been woven with two-hole tablets. The structure of the band had alternating twists to adjacent pairs of warp threads giving the surface of the band the appearance of being knit. The idea of a tablet-woven sling has occurred to me before, but this is the first sling that I have seen that might have been made this way.

Has anyone tried making a tablet woven sling?

I guess the way to tell if the Cortaillod sling could have been tablet woven would be to compare the way the threads look at the edges of the pouch with a tablet woven sample.

Wish I had more time right now for experiments.

-Timothy Potter

Zwiebeltuete attempted to make a sling using tablet weaving some years back, but according to his web site he was rather unhappy with the result. However, I believe in this case he wove the entire sling that way rather than just the pocket.

The cortaillod sling might well be tablet woven, the wefts are surely twined, but whether with two or (presumably) four I can't tell from the illustration. To be honest, I would have thought it was manually twined. As far as the edges, I'm not sure if the illustrations show a real selvedge or an edging piece that might have led into the sling cords (like the tibetan slings. The trouble is, although I think the line drawing is rather beautiful, I'm not sure how much trust one can place on very small details in it.

Is the illustration you mention the same as posted earlier in this thread?

As for time for experimentation - my thoughts exactly Sad

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winkleried

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Re: Cortaillod sling(Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC)
Reply #22 - Apr 29^th, 2009 at 1:40pm

Add me to the list of slingers that have a tablet woven sling, And yeah I can second Zwiebeltutes experiences. I do know that the Lahun and Lovelock slings appear to have woven pouches. There was a posting about a gent who wove a Tut sling.

Ya know , try it and let us know how it worked, and then you can send chris a how to article on how to weave the Cortaillod sling.

Marc Adkins

wanderer wrote on Apr 29^th, 2009 at 1:21pm:

Timothy Potter wrote on Apr 29^th, 2009 at 1:38am:

I've been working on a tablet weaving project recently, and I noticed a picture of a Bronze-Age warp-twined band in a tablet weaving book. Although the exact method of construction is unknown, it was pointed out in the book that the band could have been woven with two-hole tablets. The structure of the band had alternating twists to adjacent pairs of warp threads giving the surface of the band the appearance of being knit. The idea of a tablet-woven sling has occurred to me before, but this is the first sling that I have seen that might have been made this way.

Has anyone tried making a tablet woven sling?

I guess the way to tell if the Cortaillod sling could have been tablet woven would be to compare the way the threads look at the edges of the pouch with a tablet woven sample.

Wish I had more time right now for experiments.

-Timothy Potter

Zwiebeltuete attempted to make a sling using tablet weaving some years back, but according to his web site he was rather unhappy with the result. However, I believe in this case he wove the entire sling that way rather than just the pocket.

The cortaillod sling might well be tablet woven, the wefts are surely twined, but whether with two or (presumably) four I can't tell from the illustration. To be honest, I would have thought it was manually twined. As far as the edges, I'm not sure if the illustrations show a real selvedge or an edging piece that might have led into the sling cords (like the tibetan slings. The trouble is, although I think the line drawing is rather beautiful, I'm not sure how much trust one can place on very small details in it.

Is the illustration you mention the same as posted earlier in this thread?

As for time for experimentation - my thoughts exactly Sad

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winkleried

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Re: Cortaillod sling(Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC)
Reply #23 - Apr 30^th, 2009 at 12:05am

Well Right now sounds like you are the man for this project

Once ya get some spare time try seeing if you could figue it out, Be extremely awesome to have a sling (Particularly this sling) from this time period actually reconstructed and tossing rocks again.

Take lots of Pics then send it in to Chris Harrison for inclusion as a How-To Article.

Marc Adkins

Timothy Potter wrote on Apr 29^th, 2009 at 1:38am:

I've been working on a tablet weaving project recently, and I noticed a picture of a Bronze-Age warp-twined band in a tablet weaving book. Although the exact method of construction is unknown, it was pointed out in the book that the band could have been woven with two-hole tablets. The structure of the band had alternating twists to adjacent pairs of warp threads giving the surface of the band the appearance of being knit. The idea of a tablet-woven sling has occurred to me before, but this is the first sling that I have seen that might have been made this way.

Has anyone tried making a tablet woven sling?

I guess the way to tell if the Cortaillod sling could have been tablet woven would be to compare the way the threads look at the edges of the pouch with a tablet woven sample.

Wish I had more time right now for experiments.

-Timothy Potter

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Timothy Potter

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Re: Cortaillod sling(Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC)
Reply #24 - Apr 30^th, 2009 at 10:22pm

winkleried wrote on Apr 30^th, 2009 at 12:05am:

Once ya get some spare time try seeing if you could figue it out, Be extremely awesome to have a sling (Particularly this sling) from this time period actually reconstructed and tossing rocks again.

Thanks for the encouragement, I'll add this to my mental list of sling projects. Right now I have two slings in progress, an ancient Nazca style sling, and a more modern Pervian sling. But for the present, I need to focus on the tablet weaving project I mentioned.

-Timothy Potter

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"And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by Him." Colossians 3:17

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funda_iucunda Senior Member Offline Watt den een sin Uhl is den annern sin Nachtigal. Posts: 317 Germany (north of Hamburg) Gender:	Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC Reply #25 - May 1^st, 2009 at 5:05pm Winkleried, what guy reconstructed the Tut sling.? I never read such post. It would be exciting! funda iucunda
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winkleried Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Posts: 1535 Norman Oklahoma Gender:	Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC Reply #26 - May 1^st, 2009 at 8:02pm Mr. Potter did. Marc Adkins funda_iucunda wrote on May 1^st, 2009 at 5:05pm: Winkleried, what guy reconstructed the Tut sling.? I never read such post. It would be exciting! funda iucunda
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winkleried Interfector Viris Spurii Offline Posts: 1535 Norman Oklahoma Gender:	Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC Reply #27 - Jun 6^th, 2009 at 2:30am Showed several fiber arts experts theCortaillod sling pic. They were unanamous in saying based on the age and details that the sketch showed that it was nalbound. Marc Adkins
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David Morningstar Slinging.org Moderator Offline Slinging Rocks! Posts: 3419 UK	Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC Reply #28 - Jun 6^th, 2009 at 10:41am Nice one! http://www.geocities.com/sigridkitty/ http://www.regia.org/naalbind.htm http://home.arcor.de/bedankbar/index-eng.htm
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Curious Aardvark Forum Moderation Offline Taller than the average Dwarf Posts: 13965 Midlands England Gender:	Re: Cortaillod sling (Late Bronze Age, ca. 1000 BC Reply #29 - Jun 7^th, 2009 at 11:42am slightly better pic
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