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Pictures of Slings and Slinging (Read 1531376 times)
Tomas
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Re: Pictures of Slings and Slinging
Reply #6180 - Nov 24th, 2020 at 8:51am
 
I think I remember reading that some of the characters in the Redwall books were slinging with sashes they had around their waists!
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J
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Re: Pictures of Slings and Slinging
Reply #6181 - Nov 25th, 2020 at 6:05am
 
I have also experimented with such a strap sling, using various
types of materials, canvas, leather, nylon and sisal. It is a very interesting type of sling. It has no true ''pouch''.
Due to the flat nature of the strap sling, twirling it does not† work very good, it is best utilized in a quick throwing fashion without a wind-up. And also because it has no pouch or really any stiffness
in the pouch, utilizing a wide grip (so there's a gap between the straps) doesn't work. Strap slings like tight grips, so that the straps are grabbed together or at least really closely. The great benefit of the strap
sling is how large the rocks are that one can throw. Rocks that weight a pound are no longer the exception, but become the norm. It taught me how important a good full-grip on the release cord is, for
optimal slinging. As a result I stopped using release knots or tabs in my other slings, now I just extend the release cord to my pinkie and grab it with my whole hand.

The flat-strap sling, will even sling spherical ammo. But only if the tight-grip is utilized, otherwise your ball will fall out.
The downside of this type of sling is obvious. Controlling the pouch in a very consistent matter is not possible. So handmade biconicals are not properly slung with a strap-sling. The strap sling I consider meant for stones only, big stones primarily.

Hence the accuracy of a convential sling with round or braided cords and a unique pouch is quite a step up from the flat-strap-sling. This experience lead me to believe that the Achaean sling was in fact just a more well thought-out and developed convential sling, so that a better grip can be used for consistent rifling on good ammo.

While both of types of slings are the convential fly-out release cord sling that shoot off-the-helicopter (as old member Thomas put it), the more refined sling is definitely a different animal to use in practice than the old strap sling. `

But did they really use strap slings in the past? The only material I think makes sense for a strap sling is a thong of leather. But even that takes a very long time to prepare primitively, and of course
a large dead animal. And weaving a strap is going to take much longer and more tools than a convential sling. Maybe it did see some use, when people lacked knowing better. We do see strap-slings on ancient images, and my experimenting with themtaught me that they could be realistic depictions. Anyway, when it comes to authentic slings, I still prefer the tapered Balearic style sling made from raw yucca or similar fibres. There are many aspects in slings to consider
and this type has the most positive attributes I seek in my sling. My accuracy was enhanced greatly by making sure that the release cord end is very clean and not stiffer than the rest of the cord, so that it doesn't hang up in my hand when I release it or fly about wildly on release.

It turns out, that my ''ill releasing'' with convential slings was caused-- not by pouch friction -- but by release cord release delay in my hand. Now that I solved that issue, my accuracy with the normal sling has
increased tremendously. The problem with heavy stones and slinging hard is that the momentum pulls so hard on your hand, that you can't release your fingers off the knot or tab quick enough, and these extrusings ''hang up''
in my hand if only for miliseconds, causing unwanted release delay. Using smooth release cords that I can grip with all my finers and without extrusions, solved the problem. No more knots for me. And I place
the loop on my middle finger. I could write an essay why but I'll just say that place works the best for me.

Also, I want to place on more comment on spherical ammo. I don't think this shape is totally redundant for slings
and replaced by biconicals/ovals. The sphere has on great benefit I discovered for close-range accuracy.
Because of the nature of the ball, it releases very† clean, if coupled with round sling cords. A sphere cannot really
roll on a round cord- as a result you will never have ammo being caught in the release cord or being
deflected by the release cord. That makes the sphere a very interesting choice. The sphere also has no built-in-direction bias, because it can roll in all directions and on all axis evenly. No rolling bias translated to a clean exit out of the pouch.
An oval however, due tue the more cillindrycal shape, has more directional-rolling-bias. This can be mitigated by making sure there is no flat part on the oval, but it is smooth and a little rounded, like they traditionally are. For long range and ultimate speed and power, the more oval shaped projectile beats the sphere. But no matter what is used, good ammo is the key to good accuracy. We can engineer our slings to perfection all we want but we often lack that fervour when it comes to ammo, at least I do.

Anyway, that was a long post. I think I prefer this way of contributing. Stay away for a while, gather some thoughts and then combine them into one post instead of a hundred of seperate snippets. Good to be back, truthfully, I never left.
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Whoever fears God stands above all manner of fear. He has become a stranger to all the fear of this world and placed it far from himself, and no manner of trembling comes near him. - Ephrem the Syrian
 
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Re: Pictures of Slings and Slinging
Reply #6182 - Nov 25th, 2020 at 7:13am
 
J wrote on Nov 25th, 2020 at 6:05am:
The strap sling I consider meant for stones only, big stones primarily.

I agree, they're great for big stones. In my case it's the only sling I used for a long time, accuracy was much the same as I get with my sling now (but I've spent much less time on it).

To do smaller stones it's best to use a thinner strip, I used to just fold mine in half along it's length. The weight of the stone holds it together until release.J wrote on Nov 25th, 2020 at 6:05am:
The only material I think makes sense for a strap sling is a thong of leather.

Theres lots of easy ways primitives could make robust strips, still in use today. A strip of bark hammered like tapa cloth, or even a vine hammered flat. I haven't tried either for slinging, but they're made and used every day here for various household needs.
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TOMBELAINE
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Re: Pictures of Slings and Slinging
Reply #6183 - Nov 25th, 2020 at 2:07pm
 
Hello J.
You say :
"But did they really use strap slings in the past? The only material I think makes sense for a strap sling is a thong of leather. But even that takes a very long time to prepare primitively, and of course."
At that time, they had flint, game and time. And they didn't hunt a game for only a sling. With a piece of leather and a knife of flint, they could make a sling. Among others uses.
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Re: Pictures of Slings and Slinging
Reply #6184 - Nov 25th, 2020 at 4:24pm
 
J wrote on Nov 25th, 2020 at 6:05am:
Due to the flat nature of the strap sling, twirling it does not† work very good, it is best utilized in a quick throwing fashion without a wind-up.


I think you used the wrong materials, with cloth the stones won't fall out, because once seated the sling is not flat, it conforms to the shape of the projectile. I've never had a problem with stones, bricks, pine cones or anything else falling out. The stone used in this video is almost perfectly round. The weight is 690 grams. The grip is normal width. Full rotation on windup from vertical plane to horizontal.
https://youtu.be/mqu-plfFFj4

In terms of release, strips are pretty clean, the release end is not heavy and it's pulled tight/thinner shape by the stone. The instant you let go of it it flares out due to wind resistance rather than following through on momentum. So when I shoot my current sling the cord carries on and wraps itself around me. A strip doesn't, it slows down immediately It only has momentum from the weight of the stone. Hope that makes sense.

I don't do science, I just sling, so these are just observations in passing. But you can see it in action if you look closely at the throw in the video link.
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« Last Edit: Nov 25th, 2020 at 7:14pm by a »  
 
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Re: Pictures of Slings and Slinging
Reply #6185 - Dec 1st, 2020 at 7:30am
 
This is a primitive design I wanted to share, it is a tapered 2 ply cord sling with a 3 strand split pouch made from harvested yucca fibre. Very similar to a Balearic sling but with twisted cords instead of braided. It's very quick to make and harvesting the fibre from Yucca leaves is also a very quick process. It works great. 130g clay biconical next to it.
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« Last Edit: Dec 1st, 2020 at 10:55am by J »  

Whoever fears God stands above all manner of fear. He has become a stranger to all the fear of this world and placed it far from himself, and no manner of trembling comes near him. - Ephrem the Syrian
 
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Kick
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Re: Pictures of Slings and Slinging
Reply #6186 - Dec 1st, 2020 at 7:48am
 
Nice! I want to try a similar style with the lime bast I got recently. Actually getting around to it is another thing.
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You are a great guy Kick but also slightly scary at times. - Morphy
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Re: Pictures of Slings and Slinging
Reply #6187 - Dec 1st, 2020 at 11:53am
 
Excellent! Nice sling!

I am really starting to like 2 ply twisted cords, they work much better than I thought they would. I thought that they would have a problem twisting. I have run into no such problem.
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: Pictures of Slings and Slinging
Reply #6188 - Dec 1st, 2020 at 5:27pm
 
Nice!

Iíve been toying with the idea of tapered twisted cordage. You would have to use glue or whipping every time you drop a strand... havenít worked that part out yet.
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ďMy final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!† Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!ď† -Jesus the Noodler
 
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Morphy
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Re: Pictures of Slings and Slinging
Reply #6189 - Dec 1st, 2020 at 5:37pm
 
NooneOfConsequence wrote on Dec 1st, 2020 at 5:27pm:
Nice!

Iíve been toying with the idea of tapered twisted cordage. You would have to use glue or whipping every time you drop a strand... havenít worked that part out yet.


Beeswax my good man. Beeswax.

That's awesome Jauke. That right there is a legitimate survival sling if such a thing isn't a huge oxymoron to begin with.
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"I think this guy is the king of trolls of the forum, he waited 16 years just to say this. please pay your respects in an orderly fashion."-Sarosh
 
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walter
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Re: Pictures of Slings and Slinging
Reply #6190 - Dec 1st, 2020 at 8:56pm
 
@
J

Nice sling and gland  Thumbs Up
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J
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Re: Pictures of Slings and Slinging
Reply #6191 - Dec 2nd, 2020 at 3:51am
 
NooneOfConsequence wrote on Dec 1st, 2020 at 5:27pm:
Nice!

Iíve been toying with the idea of tapered twisted cordage. You would have to use glue or whipping every time you drop a strand... havenít worked that part out yet.


If you use a coarse vegatal fibre, like sisal and its relatives, it locks itself in and the taper becomes very gradual, so I found no need for glue or whipping.
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Whoever fears God stands above all manner of fear. He has become a stranger to all the fear of this world and placed it far from himself, and no manner of trembling comes near him. - Ephrem the Syrian
 
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NooneOfConsequence
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Re: Pictures of Slings and Slinging
Reply #6192 - Dec 3rd, 2020 at 8:52am
 
That makes sense if youíre working from raw fibers... you can almost continually reduce it. Thatís not exactly what I was thinking about though. I will have to try some things and post pictures... eventually
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ďMy final hour is at hand. We face an enemy more numerous and cunning than the world has yet seen. Remember your training, and do not fear the hordes of Judas. I, without sin, shall cast the first stone. That will be your sign to attack! But you shall not fight this unholy enemy with stones. No! RAZOR GLANDES!† Aim for the eyes! May the Lord have mercy, for we shall show none!ď† -Jesus the Noodler
 
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J
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Re: Pictures of Slings and Slinging
Reply #6193 - Dec 5th, 2020 at 9:45am
 
Sometime ago I experimented with very long elongated clay biconicals, l10-15 cm long, thin and pointy,
but these slung terrible, and they are create instability in the sling cords during wind up. Just the slightest
wrong pouch orientation angle resulted in a corrupt flight.

So the opposite projectile would be a sphere, it is much more forgiving and is very stable on the sling cords. But the downside is that a sphere does not have a point.
So I have been experimenting with fat biconical, they're almost a sphere just a little pointy, they work great and they are very forgiving.

It seems the thicker and rounder you make the glande, the more foriving and easier it is to get good consistent point first flights, and the longer and thinner you make the biconical, the harder it gets to achieve this.
Somewhere is an optimal ratio, and it is probably not as thick as this, but I like† the fat biconical.
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Whoever fears God stands above all manner of fear. He has become a stranger to all the fear of this world and placed it far from himself, and no manner of trembling comes near him. - Ephrem the Syrian
 
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Morphy
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Re: Pictures of Slings and Slinging
Reply #6194 - Dec 5th, 2020 at 1:32pm
 
Interesting. I usually go for the 2:1 or as much as 2.5:1 ratio though that is pushing it.

I have plans to make a very simple dart throwing sling basically a sling that throws darts. Nothing new about it really.  But the ammo can't be made in primitive settings making it almost useless for my uses. Still will be cool though.

The other idea that I've been throwing around is the clay glande with sharp flint flakes pushed into the front. If tapered correctly it should do wicked damage on game and that at least would be possible under primitive conditions.

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"I think this guy is the king of trolls of the forum, he waited 16 years just to say this. please pay your respects in an orderly fashion."-Sarosh
 
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