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Is it real? David and Goliath (Read 115409 times)
don1
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #90 - Apr 12th, 2007 at 8:26am
 
Quote:
That would be like a person sitting outside the courtroom reading the stenogropher's notes from a trial and then imagining some other "way it went down" in their own mind.


Not quite, Dan, but close.  What I was referring to was when you read a best-seller, that later is made into a movie.  What is usually seen up on the silver-screen is often times far different than what our imaginations have rendered.  Whereas, in the court stenographer's copy--which is supposed to be verbatim and fresh, compared to "scripture" whose sourses are dubious and parsed via the concil of Nicea. 

For me and those of my persuation, consider the bible as nothing more than a "best-seller", no offense intended, just stating a position or point of view. Smiley

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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #91 - Apr 12th, 2007 at 1:47pm
 
...I guess we all got OT, as these last 7 pages lend testimony...

the original question: Is that story a real event? ???

Undecided
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #92 - Apr 12th, 2007 at 4:29pm
 
don1 wrote on Apr 12th, 2007 at 1:47pm:
...I guess we all got OT, as these last 7 pages lend testimony...

the original question: Is that story a real event? ???

I don't think we went off-topic (except for the hell part). We said that such an event could have happend, but whether it happend just as it was described in the bible, no one can tell for sure. So now people are discussing on how credible and exact the bible is.
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #93 - Apr 13th, 2007 at 9:14am
 
Oh!

Now I get it.  Two subjects under one topic. Grin

Ok.
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #94 - Apr 13th, 2007 at 5:01pm
 

Topics evolve, that's a fact of life.  All of us exhibit varying degrees of lattitude for what a topic should or shouldn't include.

Besides, It hardly seems adequate to discuss this singular biblical event without benefit of context, seeking to determine both more about the beliefs of those who recorded it, and the book in which it is contained.


Quote:
It's not the actual possibility of the event I disbelieve - it's the sheer detail that makes it unbelievable.



Sheer detail, of itself, in no way implies deceit or embellishment.  


On the contrary, various detailed records have served throughout history to corroborate unbiased and independent discovery.  Since the dawn of man, groups, tribes and nations have kept records in a multitude of ways, with varying degrees of accuracy.  

It's not hard to spot those individual record keepers whose talent shows either a well polished skill at intentional misrepresentation, (diametrically opposed to the tenets of the book to which their particular work is added) or their devotion to maintaining accuracy.  The bible is unique in it's openness....the individual writers revealing many an embarrassing or downright horrible action on the part of one or more of their own.  Bible writers, for whom adding or taking away from true events has long been considered a most actionable offense, were laying it all out there during a time (then as always) when it was customary for lesser men to practice 'revisionist history', recording losses as victories, Changing names, dates, etc.

No, I think that if the David & Goliath account were truly embellished,  Goliath would by now be recorded as 50 ft high and having one large eye in the middle of his forehead....like the undeniable myths of other cultures, who more highly valued such obvious fantasies.  Lesser scribes would have David recorded as picking only one smooth stone.....His faith having been so perfect, knowing he needed only one stone, he would have felt guilty for picking up the other four and would have dramatically pulled them out of his shepherd's bag upon facing the giant and shouted,  "See that I have 5 stones by which to feed the birds today!"  "Well.....I only need ONE!"   He then would have thrown the other 4 at once to the side and promptly put the Cyclops' eye out with the magic stone!

The Israelites would then have mounted to the skies on their trusty 'Vimana' powered by 'Bagdad batteries' and rained down nuclear death darts on the Philistines causing Atlas to sneeze and drop the world from off his shoulders, initiating the separation of Pangea.

Rumor has it that after the battle, David, deeming that single magic stone to be very dangerous, should it fall into the wrong hands, slung it far, far out into the ocean....and it landed somewhere near the center of what today is known as the Bermuda Triangle!




All in all, I would say to any assertions to the contrary, that there is much, much more to both past history and future prophecy as recorded in the Bible, than meets the eye....from quizzical glance to prejudicial skimming!


Perhaps one of the paramount reasons the Good Book does not enjoy wider appreciation, is the fact that the ending's been given away quite thoroughly.....and it's not the preferred ending in many an ancient and modern fairytale alike.


It's characters don't all live happily ever after.



TS
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« Last Edit: Apr 13th, 2007 at 9:37pm by Yahweh Bless you in Yeshua »  

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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #95 - Apr 13th, 2007 at 10:40pm
 
Or do they?
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #96 - Apr 14th, 2007 at 2:41am
 
LKH9 wrote on Jul 14th, 2006 at 7:41am:
Is that story a real event? ???


Something that I have heard, and I think might be worthy of consideration here, is the idea of a compound story.  It might be more difficult with David since he allegedly rose to royalty, but if you take the idea of Achillies and think this through, it might work out.

Let's say that at the siege of Troy there were 10 notable warriors named Achillies.  A spearman sees Achilies 1.0 charge into a group of trojans and slay 20 while escaping unharmed.  he presses on the fight, and when Achillies 1.0 bites it in a arrow volley the spearman doesn't see it.  The next day he hears of a man who jumped over a 20 foot wall (or was thrown by a catapult...whatever) and defeats a general in single combat (or lands on him...whatever).  he doesn't know this is Achillies 2.0, so he combines the stories into one man.  This could continue as long as you had notable warriors with the same, or similar names.  This could happen with David as well.

As far as Goliath being 9 1/2 feet tall, just remember if you only heard stories about Babe Ruth, but never saw a picture of him, you wouldn't picture a short man with a beer gut and floppy jowels.  History is pop culture.
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #97 - Apr 14th, 2007 at 3:24am
 

Quote:
History is pop culture



To those who don't take their jobs seriously, yes.....I suppose it is!  To be on the safe side, I'd pay attention....at the end of the test there will be a pop quiz.


Cool


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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #98 - Apr 17th, 2007 at 12:06am
 
Don't worry, it will be graded on a curve.    And..... you get a chance to review your answers afterward. You can also get extra credit.
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #99 - Apr 17th, 2007 at 2:25am
 
Many doubt the David & Goliath account solely for lack of hard evidence, which is certainly understandable.  However, the book in which it is contained has had benefit of compelling evidentiary support over time.  The periodical, BAR (Biblical Archaeology Review) has, itself highlighted many finds corroborating the accuracy of the texts.

One account in particular, is much more miraculous than the victory granted David over Goliath.  It is the story of the Exodus, or the Red Sea crossing.   


Red Sea Crossing



God bless,



TS
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #100 - Apr 17th, 2007 at 5:04pm
 
yeah but it's mostly a matter of faith. Not proof :-)

I'm actually much more impressed with the fact that the 3 feet of mud that composes most river beds was made walkable than that a freak tide caused a ford where one did not usually exist.

Being a pragmatist, I have a lot of trouble with stuff that just leaves the nitty gritty details out - like pretty much the entire old testament :-)
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #101 - Apr 17th, 2007 at 5:29pm
 

Spoken like one who has never read the OT!   Roll Eyes

'Nitty Gritty' details abound.....



Cool


TS


P.S.  I 'believe' that one day it will be conclusively proven that those who live solely within the confines of 'proofs', like mathematicians and scientists.....never really 'lived' at all.
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #102 - Apr 18th, 2007 at 4:35pm
 
"Faith" by it's very definition can not have scientific proof.  If something is proven your belief in it is irrelevant...it's simply the truth.  For something to be an element of faith it has to be improbable or impossible without supernatural intervention. 

If you take the David and Goliath story on faith, then my quest for scientific fact is irrelevant because for you it's part of your belief in a higher power.  I believe the vein of the question though was to find out if there was hard scientific fact (i.e archaeological, or verifiable documentation) giving truth to the story.  For that there is nothing definite.  There have been some interesting leads, but they have yet to be verified. 

I must say though TS...you're wrong about those of us who seek empirical data as a basis of our belief.  I do live a rich full life, and it is made even more full by the thought that this is it.  I savor each and every moment, and live it to the fullest.
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #103 - Apr 18th, 2007 at 5:48pm
 
Quote:
I must say though TS...you're wrong about those of us who seek empirical data as a basis of our belief.  I do live a rich full life, and it is made even more full by the thought that this is it.  I savor each and every moment, and live it to the fullest.



I said nothing about a 'basis of'.  


What I said was "solely within the confines of".


It shouldn't take much seeking of empirical data to differentiate the difference between the two.



TS
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Re: Is it real? David and Goliath
Reply #104 - Apr 18th, 2007 at 5:49pm
 
jml11220,
     What you say is not strictly true.  It is true that faith and proof are mutually exclusive, but one can have faith in something about which proof is available.  One's faith is not directly in the matter at hand, but in the truthfulness and thoroughness of those whose proofs one has not worked through and verified for oneself.  Everyone lives by faith in SOMETHING, because no one has time enough to work through all proofs of everything.  I have faith in the fact that any waveform can be decomposed into the sum of a set of sine waves of varying frequencies, because I have faith in the mathematical work of Jean Baptiste Joseph Fourier. If I took time to reproduce his work, and proved the matter for myself, then faith would no longer be necessary for me concerning that matter.

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